WesWorld

In regard to Brazil's statement, just build them!

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This is as accurate to the known specs as I can get it.

Looks to me like aspects of Group 1, 2 and 3 were taken and put into one design.

I was a bit hesitant to go for the high l:b ratio of the Group 3 subs so I altered the dimensions a bit for the one I simmed.

Considering that the main gun is the QF 6 pounder gun, shouldn't the shell weight of the 57mm gun be 6 lbs?

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Did the Greek subs not get placed in the encyclopedia?? I don't see ANY Greek subs at all.

You'll have to knock on Alt_Naval's door for the subs not being in the Encyclopedia. Perhaps threaten to turn his Salamis into salami if he does not put the sims in the encyclopedia.

For the numbers given above, I looked at the most recent reports first because that is the easiest way. The number of Greek subs is given here.

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?postid=77151#post77151

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Originally posted by Red Admiral
Of the top couple Japan has loads of mini submarines and Atlantis and Russia still have lots of ancient submarines from the 1910s.

Atlantis has been focusing on other ships for refits/rebuilds though in the meantime I did build a specialized shipyard for subs at Palinerus. Ironically enough the first sub built there wasn't built for Atlantis but Bulgaria due to current lack of funds to begin the planned sub program.

In the short term some of the older subs will get quick refits while replacements are built once funds are available, likely in the next few quarters.

Atlantis hasn't put too much stock in its mini-subs, they are mostly for special operations and testing of new idea's, otherwise like Japan you'd see hords of them. I've done this because in my opinion mini-subs of this period would be extremely unreliable and not very sea worthy. In the Atlantean fleet this is offset by my pair of submarine mother ships, which also find themselves testing various new idea's.

To get back on topic, if Brazil is looking for a good coastal defence sub design Atlantis can make an offer.

The comment about it being almost too late is true however. With the war losses, Brazil is basically starting back in 1922 again, 15 years behind everyone else.

No BC's or BB's can be built until at least 1938, because thre is no place for them. Out of Brazil's three type 3 drydocks and slips, one will be upgrading to a type 4, one will have the Sao Paulo in her for scrapping, and one will have the Sao Paulo's replacement in her (a 17000 ton AC) that was the original plan.

The submarine idea came in response to a thought I had. Brazil cannot win a war against SAE without taking command of the sea, and halting all reinforcements to Uruguay, something Brazil cant do with a traditional fleet. Submarines, however are alot cheaper.

You don´t have to scrap that old BB in a dock after all...

Brazil can offload its older ships to gain some tonnage to put towards purchasing a capital ship. The Salvador and Matto Grosso class DD's could be sold to say Mexico and replaced by an additional run of 9 Margay class DD's. That would give you 18 modern DD's.

You then have the Sagitério and Almirante Barroso class CL's so your ok in the cruiser department with eight ships (unless some have been sunk?).

That leaves you with the perfect opertunity to rebuild your fleet at the top and bottom ends. several CA's, perhaps a super CA or BC as well and heaps of Sloops, Frigates, Corvettes, patrol vessels Subs and MTB's.

Your ABC allies have many good designs in this catagory as well as your neighbour to the North.

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Originally posted by HoOmAn
You don´t have to scrap that old BB in a dock after all...

I thought we had to, its over 2001 tons.

If someone wants the old DDs, make me an offer. I was actually going to go a bit smaller on the next DDs, the Margays are really too slow for destroyers, although they are okay for escorting BBs.

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In the short term some of the older subs will get quick refits while replacements are built once funds are available, likely in the next few quarters.

Given the age of the subs and reading about similar historical types, it isn't really worth keeping any from the period. By the 1930s they are getting old, worn, and not particularly safe by modern standards. Similar things apply to the Russian subs and just generally any from the period. (I can't say I fancy a 40 day+ patrol on a 400ton coastal submarine either)

I'm not sure on the usefulness of minisubs. They're only really useful for attacking things in harbour, and then it only works if the harbour is fairly close. The experimental submarine looks good. It'd be interesting to know what the lumps are aft of the tower - missile silos?

Italy has plenty of small modern coastal subs for the Mediterranean now. Its time to start getting bigger again for the world outside.

Without BB's however their role seems to be up in the air (if the Brazilians feel their speed isn't up to snuff) but they can still escort the CL's of the fleet. They can also provide a very usefull ship for patrol, coastal defence and anti sub duty's, though their size makes them less suited for the last role.

A fast 1,200 ton general purpose DD design would be usefull, even a 900-1,000 ton design, something cheap enough to build in significant numbers so you can cover several roles with one design. Basically a Jack of all trades, not exeptional in any one role in particular but adequate in all.

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Originally posted by Red Admiral

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In the short term some of the older subs will get quick refits while replacements are built once funds are available, likely in the next few quarters.

Given the age of the subs and reading about similar historical types, it isn't really worth keeping any from the period. By the 1930s they are getting old, worn, and not particularly safe by modern standards. Similar things apply to the Russian subs and just generally any from the period. (I can't say I fancy a 40 day+ patrol on a 400ton coastal submarine either)

I'm not sure on the usefulness of minisubs. They're only really useful for attacking things in harbour, and then it only works if the harbour is fairly close. The experimental submarine looks good. It'd be interesting to know what the lumps are aft of the tower - missile silos?

Italy has plenty of small modern coastal subs for the Mediterranean now. Its time to start getting bigger again for the world outside.

Everything pre D-9 and R-26 classes is preaty much on the chopping block. The lumps on the XSS-3 are experimental launch ports for the experimental "Fallax" system, not missiles. I've been meaning to take the XSS-3 into the dockyards to remove them as the torpedo tubes are far more usefull in this role. She could also prove a usefull platform for a minisub mothership.

Has Brazil really completed all those 8 CLs? I know there was some confusion about what was reported, then changed and finally fixed.

The war completely wrecked SAEs building plans and delayed many if not most new-builds aboce DD size because of the need to repair ships and build units suddenly not available in numbers. Wouldn´t be too surprised of that was true for Argentina and Brazil too. So are those CLs all build and what are their completion dates?

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The lumps on the XSS-3 are experimental launch ports for the experimental "Fallax" system, not missiles.

Mines?

Think "Bold".

For Brazil, keep in mind that not everything HAS to be built in home yards. It's generally better to do so, absolutely, but sometimes it's worth using foreign yards if necessary (if, for instance, you don't have enough of a large enough size).

Brazil, IIRC, actually has very nice infrastructure for a country of it's size. In certain areas they're better off than Chile is...

Brazil:
- 2 Type 3 slips
- 1 Type 3 drydock
- 8 Type 1 slips
- 1 Type 1 drydock
- 3 Type 0 slips
- 3 Type 0 drydocks

Chile:
- 1 Type 3 drydock
- 1 Type 3 slip
- 2 Type 2 drydocks
- 1 Type 2 slip
- 1 Type 1 drydock
- 3 Type 1 slips
- 2 Type 0 drydocks
- 2 Type 0 slips

(I envy his Type 3 and Type 1 facilities; but I'm glad I have my Type 2s!)

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Brazil is quite unhappy with the gunnery performance by her navy in the SA War, and will be looking for either a predreadnought or an early dreadnought to use as a gunnery training ship if any are available.

Mexico has Santa Anna available. But I have a strange deal in mind. Mexico loans her and Cinco de Mayo to Brazil in exchange for a 4,000 ton loan from Brazil. You get to train with them and I get the cash I need short term. Once Mexico repays the loan the ships are returned.

Thoughts?

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Originally posted by HoOmAn
Has Brazil really completed all those 8 CLs? I know there was some confusion about what was reported, then changed and finally fixed.

The war completely wrecked SAEs building plans and delayed many if not most new-builds aboce DD size because of the need to repair ships and build units suddenly not available in numbers. Wouldn´t be too surprised of that was true for Argentina and Brazil too. So are those CLs all build and what are their completion dates?

The first Saggie Class CL (the 9 gun ones) are completed by Q1/36, and another is completed in Q2. Two of the 12 gun CLs will be completed in Q3 and Q4, the last 2 9 gun cruisers will be completed in this current quarter (Q2) and Q1/38. The final 12 gun cruiser completes in Q1/1938. One more cruiser of the 12 gun class was also to be built, but I redesigned her (her SS is in this thread near the end). She is to be laid down in 1938.

Oh, and DF, let me play with some numbers, and sleep on it, and ill get back to you.

Hmmmm, now I´m glad that Brazil kicked out of the conflict in Q4/35. Those units available in 1936 (I assume dates given are without shakedown cruises) may have cause a headache to the RSAN...

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Think "Bold".

Bold? CASCOS? Crazy Atlantean Suicide Commando Operating System?

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Think "Bold".

Yes, it doesn't make any sense for me either Walter.