WesWorld

And so, Mexico finally accomplishes it's dream of purchasing a carrier on the cheap.

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Originally posted by TexanCowboy
And so, Mexico finally accomplishes it's dream of purchasing a carrier on the cheap.

I don't see buying those two as 'cheap', since presumably the Nords will want the purchaser to take on the remaining build cost, which means the minimum is 10k tons payment.

I'm curious as to why the Nords are willing to dispose of the ships in this manner tho; They're presumably early enough in construction that they could be modified (within reason) to meet any modest change in requirements.

Hehe, I did that a loooooong time ago. I got Hosho at below scrap value...

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
And so, Mexico finally accomplishes it's dream of purchasing a carrier on the cheap.

I don't see buying those two as 'cheap', since presumably the Nords will want the purchaser to take on the remaining build cost, which means the minimum is 10k tons payment.

I'm curious as to why the Nords are willing to dispose of the ships in this manner tho; They're presumably early enough in construction that they could be modified (within reason) to meet any modest change in requirements.

I'm thinking either

A. Storyline
or B. The results of that Naval Exercise thing, a shift in the manner of thinking in the Nordmarkian Admirality.

That's just my personal view on it, though, it could be different....

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_IncI'm curious as to why the Nords are willing to dispose of the ships in this manner tho; They're presumably early enough in construction that they could be modified (within reason) to meet any modest change in requirements.

Under the rules, that would be allowed, but it doesn't actually make much sense from a realism viewpoint. Using shipbuilding practices at this time and our building rules, about 60% of the hull should have been manufactured, if not assembled, and it's probably about 40% assembled. The only realistic way of using that material at this stage would be in an aircraft carrier of about this size, and Nordmark doesn't want them.

If buyers weren't forthcoming, they'd most likely be converted, at some expense, to fast oilers with half the powerplant. It wasn't a given that the ships would be sold: it was contingent on getting a good offer, although I've now got at least one of those.

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
I'm thinking either

A. Storyline
or B. The results of that Naval Exercise thing, a shift in the manner of thinking in the Nordmarkian Admirality.

It's a mixture of A and B. From an OOC viewpoint, I started imposing my hand on the building plans whilst I have major-ish ships building, rather than waiting until it was all small craft. It was also a consideration that there are mistakes made in procurement from time to time. Frankly, I've been surprised how much interest there is in these ships.

From an IC perspective, orders had been placed and long-lead items were being manufactured. The outcome of the exercise was tossed back and forth, and several options for using the light carriers discussed. During this time, the shipyards were proceeding with the last set of instructions. Since the Admiralty knew it wanted more carriers, just not what they'd look like, it made sense to keep the orders in place and construction going until a decision was made. If they had been wanted, it would have meant starting again and a six month delay in getting the ships into service.

Would they still have the deck-edge lift?

Are they offically sold yet? If not I'll PM you.

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Originally posted by Hood
Would they still have the deck-edge lift?

Not unless you want one. I'm in nefarious arms dealer mode at the moment, so most things are on the table.

Quoted

Are they offically sold yet? If not I'll PM you.

Have sent reply.

The Royal Yugoslav Navy has declared its two ex-Danish D-13 class destoyers as surplus to requirements and is accepting offers for their purchase.

Details are:
Danish D-13 Class Destroyer laid down 1918 (sim by Commodore Green)

Displacement: 1,929 t light; 2,000 t standard; 2,196 t normal; 2,345 t full load
Loading submergence 207 tons/feet

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
320.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
97.54 m x 12.19 m x 4.27 m

Armament:
6 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns
4 - 0.51" / 13 mm guns
Weight of broadside 322 lbs / 146 kg
6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Main gun shields 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 51,200 shp / 38,195 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts

Complement: 160 - 208

Cost: £0.569 million / $2.274 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 40 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 5 tons, 0.2 %
Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Armament: 5 tons, 0.2 %, Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,307 tons, 59.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 527 tons, 24.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 267 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 2.3 %

Metacentric height 2.1

Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is extremely poor
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.32
Shellfire needed to sink: 407 lbs / 185 Kg = 7.6 x 4.8 " / 121 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.3
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 70 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.20
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.429
Sharpness coefficient: 0.33
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.52
'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim: 70
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 208.2 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 120.3 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 54 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.44
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs / square foot or 180 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.91
(for 18.25 ft / 5.56 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 7.07 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.51

An agreement has been reached to complete the two Ocean class carriers presently on the ways for Turkey.

The two D-13 destroyers previously declared surplus have been sold to China, for delivery in the first quarter of 1940.

The Royal Yugoslav Navy has declared the six Afrika class submarines in its inventory surplus to requirements. These boats were acquired in 1937 from South Africa; they were laid down in 1918.

Details are:

Afrika class Submarines (SAE design)

[Technical data based on historical German WW1 sub UB-142]

Length, 55.8 m x Beam, 5.8 m x Depth, 3.75 m
482 tonnes standard (635 tonnes submerged)
Diving Depth: 75 m
Main battery: 1 x 10.5-cm
5 TT (10), 50 cm
Maximum speed 13.5 knots surfaced
Maximum speed 7.5 knots submerged
Approximate cruising radius, 7500 nm / 6 knots surfaced
Approximate cruising radius, 55 nm / 4 knots submerged
Typical complement: 26-33
Oil firing
Magazines and engineering spaces are cramped, with poor watertight subdivision
Main deck guns subject to being washed down in a seaway

The Royal Yugoslav Navy has declared its three Orjen class torpedo boats surplus to requirements. These vessels were originally of the Filipino Ajo class laid down in 1922. Details are as follows:

Orjen class Torpedo Boat laid down 1922 (Filipino Ajo class)

Displacement: 600 t light; 615 t standard; 694 t normal; 758 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
237.76 ft / 235.00 ft x 23.50 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
72.47 m / 71.63 m x 7.16 m x 3.35 m

Armament:
1 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 14.00lbs / 6.35kg shells, 1922 Model Quick firing gun in a deck mount with a hoist on centreline forward
2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1922 Model Anti-aircraft guns in a deck mount on centreline aft
2 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model Machine guns in deck mounts on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 18 lbs / 8 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
2nd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,403 shp / 7,760 Kw = 26.25 kts
Range 1,030nm at 21.00 kts (Bunkerage = 142 tons)

Complement: 9 officers and 68 men

Cost: £0.192 million / $0.768 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 2 tons, 0.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 2 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 340 tons, 49.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 256 tons, 36.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 95 tons, 13.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
316 lbs / 143 Kg = 23.4 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.33 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 10.24 ft / 3.12 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 160.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 26.2 %
Waterplane Area: 3,399 Square feet or 316 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 172 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.80
- Longitudinal: 3.33
- Overall: 0.92
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
The Royal Yugoslav Navy has declared the six Afrika class submarines in its inventory surplus to requirements. These boats were acquired in 1937 from South Africa; they were laid down in 1918.

These boats have been sold to Latvia for delivery in the 1st Quarter of 1940.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
The Royal Yugoslav Navy has declared its three Orjen class torpedo boats surplus to requirements. These vessels were originally of the Filipino Ajo class laid down in 1922

These vessels have been sold to China for delivery in the first quarter of 1940.

Budget cuts causing some of the Italian ships put into reserve by the SDR in 1938 to become available for purchase or disposal.

Aircraft Carrier Barbiano
Aircraft Carrier Colleoni
Aircraft Carrier Bande Nere
This thread for details

Aircraft Carriers Morosini, Aquila and Europa will become available over the next couple of years...

Elba Class Coastal Defence Ships
This thread for details

Perla Class Submarines (not all 40 of them)
This thread for details

Hmm a conundrum.

I had volunteered to catch Siam up to date, and did so with CG's blessing. My role is done, at least for now.

In the course of that I felt Siam could use a small fast carrier. The goal would be to provide Some fighters or scouts for use in the South China Sea or Bay of Bengal. Insufficient for an offensive strike, but a means of destroying enemy recon planes and disrupting maritime strikes.

The last Siamese player sold the small fast carrier that the player before him built.

So the Italian CVLs suit Siam, and actually the CDS would compliment their existing vessels as well.

So if folks are ok with my 'caretaking' them in this manner, I'll talk to CG and see if Siam should be bidding on them.

I don't think the Mods will have any objection to you continuing to handle Siam, so long CG and your allies are happy with it, and you're sure you can handle it all.

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Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
I don't think the Mods will have any objection to you continuing to handle Siam, so long CG and your allies are happy with it, and you're sure you can handle it all.

Seconded. I have no objections if you continued to manage Siam in that manner, so long as CG's good with everything too.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
Hmm a conundrum.

I had volunteered to catch Siam up to date, and did so with CG's blessing. My role is done, at least for now.

In the course of that I felt Siam could use a small fast carrier. The goal would be to provide Some fighters or scouts for use in the South China Sea or Bay of Bengal. Insufficient for an offensive strike, but a means of destroying enemy recon planes and disrupting maritime strikes.

The last Siamese player sold the small fast carrier that the player before him built.

So the Italian CVLs suit Siam, and actually the CDS would compliment their existing vessels as well.

So if folks are ok with my 'caretaking' them in this manner, I'll talk to CG and see if Siam should be bidding on them.

There's three of them, though...would make a nice dance partner to Riga, now that I think about it, with some modifications....

Another carrier in the Bay of Bengal? HELL NO!

Just kidding. It would make sense for Siam to acquire the ships discussed, even more so in the IC role playing as the nation being a puppet of that alliance should have first dibs to those ships.