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1

Tuesday, February 10th 2009, 1:22pm

US Armored Car Development: 1930-1940

In the 1920s and 1930s, the US Cavalry was prohibited by statute from using tanks (which were allocated entirely to the US Infantry until the formation of the Armor branch). Attempts were made to skirt this prohibition by the expedient of calling M2 light tanks "combat cars", but these attempts were quashed by Congress after they were discovered in 1935. With the increasing mechanization of the Army, the Cavalry began to replace it's horses with vehicles as well, the first steps being the M2 and M3 scout cars. These vehicles were mechanically reliable enough, but their narrow tires and limited power made them unsuited for off-road use except in good conditions and adding additional weight with the addition of a turret was clearly not going to result in an improvement.

The Cavalry branch decided it needed vehicles for recon that were heavier and better armed and armored than the scout cars, but it was prohibited by statute from owning tanks (the basic definition of which was "an armored vehicle propelled by tracks"). The new armored cars would need to be protected against .30" fire or shell splinters from the sides and .50" fire from the front, it was decided, since they were intended to be recon units not intended to fight heavier vehicles in a toe-to-toe slugging match (note: deck and belly armor were not a priority, open topped turrets were expected to allow better visibility for the crew and light weight was a requirement).
Primary armament-wise, the options were somewhat slim: the .50" HMG was a good weapon, but the scout cars already mounted it. The rest of the weapons in the US Army inventory that might possibly be suitable were the 1.5" AT gun and the (too heavy) 1.5" AA gun, then the new 2" AT gun, the (unsuitable for direct fire) 2.2" light mortar, and the (too heavy) 3" field gun, the (even heavier) 3" AA gun, and the (interesting, but poor trajectory and limited ammunition choices) 3" pack howitzer. In the end, in 1936 the Cavalry chose the 1.5" gun (with a load out of equal numbers of AP, HE, and canister rounds) for the light armored car, and the 2" gun (with a similar loadout of AP, HE, and canister) for the heavy armored car, though the intent was to trial a heavy armored car with the 3" pack howitzer as a possible support car. The mix of ammunition types was intended to give the vehicle commander options when he encountered hostile forces: the AP rounds would allow him to engage light-to-medium armored vehicles, the HE would allow him to engage strong points or soft-skinned vehicles, and the canister would be useful against infantry or guns and their crews at close range.
The Cavalry, having encountered the limits of the M-2 and M-3 scout cars, was also interested in seeing the new armored cars do better off-road than their predecessors, so it required at least the same power-to-weight ratio and a lower ground pressure than the scout cars had.

[Note: in contrast to OTL history, the Cavalry is in charge of the development of US armored cars here in WW, as opposed to essentially being second fiddle behind the Tank Destroyer Corps as it was in OTL (and then the Tank Destroyer Corps pretty much abandoned the M8 after making decisions that made it less capable as a scouting vehicle). As in OTL, in service upgrades to the belly protection on these vehicles is a likely change should they see combat, as is a change from the .30" AA MG to a .50" AA HMG over time.]

2

Tuesday, February 10th 2009, 1:30pm

Well Persia is happy with its US made armored cars

3

Tuesday, February 10th 2009, 1:55pm

I'd expect the TK-6 to have some problems off-road, though it does have a MUCH better power-weight ratio than the historical M-8 Greyhound did (around10.4 tons and 240 hp vs 7.8 tons and 110 hp). The TK-6's ground pressure's probably pretty high, though, since it only has 4 wheels and they're not especially large. But as long as it stays away from soft ground, it should do OK. The vehicles the US Cavalry will be getting (the M-7 and M-10 armored cars) will split the difference: lower ground pressure than the TK-6, but not as much power (not even the M-10 heavy car is going to get a 240 hp engine, right now it looks more like a 180 hp engine for the M-10 models).

4

Tuesday, February 10th 2009, 2:03pm

Well I guess I will have to wait and see what you come up with, may even order some as replacement for the RR India Pattern

5

Tuesday, February 10th 2009, 2:08pm

The M-7's going to be similar to the historical M-8, except with more power (a 150 hp engine vs the historical 110 hp engine), a 6x6 vs 6x4 design with slightly wider tires, and a .30 AA MG vs the M-8's .50. Weights are about the same as the M-8s at 7 metric tons.

The M-10's not a historical design, but it can be thought of as a stretched and slightly wider M-7 or M-8: 8x8, 200 hp engine, 2" gun and .30 MG in the open-topped turret with a .30 AA MG. The M-11 support car (which may or may not get purchased, haven't decided yet) replaces the 2" gun with a 3" pack howitzer. Both of these vehicles weigh in at 9.25 metric tons or a bit less.

6

Wednesday, February 25th 2009, 2:11pm

Vehicle Name US M-7
Vehicle Type Light combat car

Length 5.01 meters
Width 2.24 meters
Height 2.33 meters

Crew 4.00 men
Passengers 0.00 men

Weight Breakdown
Crew Weight 0.72 metric tons
Passenger Weight 0.00 metric tons
Miscellaneous Weight 0.09 metric tons
Armor Weight 3.40 metric tons
Armament Weight 0.17 metric tons
Ammunition Weight 0.24 metric tons
Engine Weight 0.32 metric tons
Fuel Weight 0.23 metric tons
APU Weight 0.00 metric tons
Energy Bank Weight 0.04 metric tons
Transmission Weight 0.32 metric tons
Amphibious Equipment Weight 0.00 metric tons
Suspension Weight 0.54 metric tons
Axle Weight 0.51 metric tons
Tire Weight 0.42 metric tons
Applique Armor Package A 0.00 metric tons
Applique Armor Package B 0.00 metric tons
Cargo Payload 0.00 metric tons

Mobility and Performance Breakdown

Engine 150.00 horsepower
Fuel Capacity 80.00 gallons
Maximum Hull Speed (water) 6.25 MPH

Baseline Upgraded (A) Upgraded (A+B)
Combat Weight 6.98 6.98 6.98 metric tons
Growth Capability (Transmission) 5.15 5.15 5.15 metric tons
Growth Capability (Suspension) 0.52 0.52 0.52 metric tons
Growth Capability (Fully Inflated Tires) metric tons
Growth Capability (Partially Inflated Tires) metric tons
Ground Pressure (Fully Inflated Tires) 24.53 24.53 24.53 PSI
Ground Pressure (Partially Inflated Tires) 16.68 16.68 16.68 PSI
Power/Weight Ratio 21.49 21.49 21.49 hp/metric ton
Top Speed 68.69 68.69 68.69 MPH
Operating Range 325.60 325.60 325.60 miles

Amphibious Performance Breakdown
Density of Vehicle 0.39 0.39 0.39 g/cm3
Vehicle Freeboard (Transiting) 0.42 0.42 0.42 meters
Vehicle Freeboard (Dropped In) 0.05 0.05 0.05 meters
Vehicle Draft (Transiting) 1.00 1.00 1.00 meters
Vehicle Draft (Dropped in) 1.37 1.37 1.37 meters
Water Speed #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! MPH
Operating Range In Water #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! miles

Armament Breakdown
Hull Turret AA
Rifle Calibre MGs 0.00 1.00 1.00
HMGs 0.00 0.00 0.00

Hull Turret Total
ATGMs 0.00 0.00 0.00 rounds stowed
Rifle Calibre 0.00 1,600.00 1,600.00 rounds stowed
HMG Calibre 0.00 0.00 0.00 rounds stowed

Calibre (mm) # in Hull # in Turret Rounds (hull) Rounds (Turret)
Cannon/Gun 1 37.00 0.00 1.00 0.00 72
Cannon/Gun 2 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0

BASELINE PROTECTION LEVELS
KE (mm) HEAT (mm) KE Resistance HEAT Resistance
Front Hull Armor 17.74 17.74 Resistant to 7.62 Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Side Hull Armor 9.58 9.58 Penetratable by Virtually Anything Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Rear Hull Armor 9.16 9.16 Penetratable by Virtually Anything Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Top Hull Armor 3.00 3.00 Penetratable by Virtually Anything Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Hull Floor Armor 3.00 3.00 Penetratable by Virtually Anything Penetratable by Virtually Anything

KE (mm) HEAT (mm) KE Resistance HEAT Resistance
Front Turret Armor 20.22 20.22 Resistant to 7.62 Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Side Turret Armor 13.52 13.52 Resistant to 5.56 Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Rear Turret Armor 13.52 13.52 Resistant to 5.56 Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Top Turret Armor 0.00 0.00 Penetratable by Virtually Anything Penetratable by Virtually Anything

7

Wednesday, February 25th 2009, 2:26pm

Vehicle Name US M-10
Vehicle Type Heavy combat car

Length 5.20 meters
Width 2.44 meters
Height 2.33 meters

Crew 5.00 men
Passengers 0.00 men

Weight Breakdown
Crew Weight 0.90 metric tons
Passenger Weight 0.00 metric tons
Miscellaneous Weight 0.11 metric tons
Armor Weight 4.36 metric tons
Armament Weight 0.34 metric tons
Ammunition Weight 0.30 metric tons
Engine Weight 0.42 metric tons
Fuel Weight 0.28 metric tons
APU Weight 0.03 metric tons
Energy Bank Weight 0.04 metric tons
Transmission Weight 0.40 metric tons
Amphibious Equipment Weight 0.00 metric tons
Suspension Weight 0.71 metric tons
Axle Weight 0.70 metric tons
Tire Weight 0.56 metric tons
Applique Armor Package A 0.00 metric tons
Applique Armor Package B 0.00 metric tons
Cargo Payload 0.00 metric tons

Mobility and Performance Breakdown

Engine 200.00 horsepower
Fuel Capacity 100.00 gallons
Maximum Hull Speed (water) 6.37 MPH

Baseline Upgraded (A) Upgraded (A+B)
Combat Weight 9.15 9.15 9.15 metric tons
Growth Capability (Transmission) 6.25 6.25 6.25 metric tons
Growth Capability (Suspension) 0.85 0.85 0.85 metric tons
Growth Capability (Fully Inflated Tires) metric tons
Growth Capability (Partially Inflated Tires) metric tons
Ground Pressure (Fully Inflated Tires) 24.12 24.12 24.12 PSI
Ground Pressure (Partially Inflated Tires) 16.40 16.40 16.40 PSI
Power/Weight Ratio 21.85 21.85 21.85 hp/metric ton
Top Speed 69.85 69.85 69.85 MPH
Operating Range 310.40 310.40 310.40 miles

Amphibious Performance Breakdown
Density of Vehicle 0.46 0.46 0.46 g/cm3
Vehicle Freeboard (Transiting) 0.28 0.28 0.28 meters
Vehicle Freeboard (Dropped In) -0.16 -0.16 -0.16 meters
Vehicle Draft (Transiting) 1.14 1.14 1.14 meters
Vehicle Draft (Dropped in) 1.58 1.58 1.58 meters
Water Speed #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! MPH
Operating Range In Water #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! miles

Armament Breakdown
Hull Turret AA
Rifle Calibre MGs 0.00 1.00 1.00
HMGs 0.00 0.00 0.00

Hull Turret Total
ATGMs 0.00 0.00 0.00 rounds stowed
Rifle Calibre 0.00 1,600.00 1,600.00 rounds stowed
HMG Calibre 0.00 0.00 0.00 rounds stowed

Calibre (mm) # in Hull # in Turret Rounds (hull) Rounds (Turret)
Cannon/Gun 1 50.80 0.00 1.00 0.00 54
Cannon/Gun 2 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0

BASELINE PROTECTION LEVELS
KE (mm) HEAT (mm) KE Resistance HEAT Resistance
Front Hull Armor 21.03 21.03 Resistant to 7.62 Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Side Hull Armor 13.52 13.52 Resistant to 5.56 Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Rear Hull Armor 6.47 6.47 Penetratable by Virtually Anything Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Top Hull Armor 3.00 3.00 Penetratable by Virtually Anything Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Hull Floor Armor 3.00 3.00 Penetratable by Virtually Anything Penetratable by Virtually Anything

KE (mm) HEAT (mm) KE Resistance HEAT Resistance
Front Turret Armor 27.03 27.03 Resistant to 12.7 Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Side Turret Armor 13.52 13.52 Resistant to 5.56 Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Rear Turret Armor 13.02 13.02 Resistant to 5.56 Penetratable by Virtually Anything
Top Turret Armor 0.00 0.00 Penetratable by Virtually Anything Penetratable by Virtually Anything