WesWorld

I suppose Hrolf's interpretation of the rules as they currently stand, and the appearent disregard of concerns raised about it, is what is getting at me.

When I built Loki, I was made to pay for the misc tonnage that was the ships ability to carry cargo, even though it seems to me to be stupid to pay for something that isn't there. But as it was the consensus at the time, I went with it.

When Ram started making full use of the scrapping rules first while playing The Netherlands, there was much discussion about it, and a new set of rules were developed, rules I still think are too harsh. But as it was the consensus at the time, I went with it.

If we are willing to discuss changes in the rules, I have no problem. But I do have a very real concern about interpretations of the rules that could be abused, and an unwillingness to discuss it.

??? I'm not disregarding the discussion, I'm waiting to see what the result is. Rather than arguing the points, I figure it's better to see what comes out of it

The way I thought of it, the ships are, after their transfer to museum status, out of service, and the KM gets normal scrap value. The ships no longer have ammunition (other than a couple 30.5cm training projectiles without their fuzes, some 30.5cm propellent cases without propellent and some 15cm and 8.8cm training rounds in static displays), their boilers and turbines are not maintained, what electrical power is needed for lights and so on is shore power. Most all of the spare parts inventory for the ships ashore is either scrap or destined for other reuse (turbine spares are likely scrap, unless some civillian liner has a use for them, the spare gun barrels can be used for shore battery spares or as additional batteries, etc). The ships were not broken up and turned into scrap, but from the point of view of the KM, they might as well be.

When it comes down to it, there aren't any rules for museum ships and their cost. I looked at it, thought that the scrap price (based on what I've seen with the Duluth situation) seemed fair, and went with it. If it's a real problem, I can make changes.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
??? I'm not disregarding the discussion, I'm waiting to see what the result is.

I know you're not, you have raised the issue, and it's up to the rest of us to work it out to the approval of the majority, for use by all of us.

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green
I suppose Hrolf's interpretation of the rules as they currently stand, and the appearent disregard of concerns raised about it, is what is getting at me.

Sorry if I stepped on your toes...

Discussions like this are annoying me. There are other flaws or grey areas in our rules that have much more impact...

I suppose there are, but if they stay in the shadows, we can't deal with them.

This is an opportunity to deal with this one.

The others will come to a head eventually..........

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green
The others will come to a head eventually..........

Indeed they will. In the very moment I find the time and mood to rant over our repair and war economy rules..... >o(

Send me an advance rant via pm so I'm prepared!

Seriously though I'm of two minds on this but if others feel this is a serious issue perhaps we need to start a separate thread on how we can create rules for Museum ships?

I'm amenable to that.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
I'm amenable to that.

Ditto!

Works for me.

I have no problem with Hrolfs interpretation of the rules.

I don't like it. Ships are physically more or less intact. We don't account for spares, so no value should be derived from that.

Salvage value has generally been portrayed as the minimal value one gets from recycling *and* requires breaking time. It's not simply shipping the spares elsewhere, but a physical dismantling of the vessel with a sliver of value derived from from the process. Without dismantling the vessel there is no place to derive that value from.

Actually, we get many times what we should for scrap value here in WW: in 2006, the (approximately) 17,000 ton USS Des Moines was sold to ESCO Marine for scrapping for $924000. That works out to $54.35 a ton.

Accepted, we also pay more than we should for some things- pulling a turret off is a large refit,
and we also underpay- gee while we're redoing X, we can redo W, Y and Z under the same category of refit without paying a dime more. All the while we don't have any maintenance or operating costs at all.

But in order to use the scrapping rules, I rather think you have to actually scrap something.