WesWorld

The Belgians are seeking to make an order for roughly 120 tanks for delivery in 1937-38.

Desired weight is 10-15t
Speed is to be at least 20km/hr
Desired armanent is the Belgium 47mm FRC gun
Armor is to be at least 30mm in the frontal arc.
A radio is required.

(yes, these are pretty low end requirements, I'm looking at the H35 and R35 as examples)

If the dimensions and the recoil distance of the 47mm FRC gun can be supplied, it is expected that German industry could supply a version of the Panzer II equipped with that weapon, and of course a radio. The standard 7.92mm MG would, of course, be replaced with Belgium's preferred type.

Atlantis could offer the AT-33 which could mount the Belgian 47mm FRC gun.


AT-33
Length 5.5 meters
Width 2.75 meters
Height 2.5 meters

Crew 5 men
Passengers 0 men

Weight 19.04 tons.

Engine: 2x Napier-hall 6 cylinder diesels developing 250 horsepower total
Fuel Capacity: 120 gallons
Top Speed: 23.81 MPH (37 km/h)
Operating Range: 141 miles

Armament: one Aspis Arsenal 57mm MK I (100 rounds) and two 7.62mm machine guns (1500 rounds each).
Armor: 48-10mm, Hull - 43 mm Front, 25 mm sides/rear, 12 mm roof/belly.
Turret - 48 mm front, 40 mm sides/rear, 12 mm top

A conversion of the current Panzer II B to use the 47mm FRC looks like:

Panzer II Bel

Length 4.50 meters
Width 2.24 meters
Height 2.15 meters

Crew 3.00 men (commander, gunner, driver)

Combat Weight 9.95 metric tons

Engine: 160 hp MAN diesel, with 7 speed Renk transmission
Fuel capacity: 80 gallons diesel, for a range of 182 miles
Top speed: 29.14 mph / 46.624 km/h
Armament: 1 47mm FRC with 60 rounds, 1 MG with 1500 rounds in turret

Chassis armor: 30mm front, 15mm sides & rear, 8mm deck, 10mm belly
Turret armor: 35mm front, 15mm sides & rear, 8mm deck


An alternative, based on the lengthened Panzer II chassis, looks like:

Panzer II Bel

Length 5.40 meters
Width 2.24 meters
Height 2.15 meters

Crew 3.00 men (commander, gunner, driver)

Combat Weight 13.01 metric tons

Engine: 240 hp MAN diesel, with 7 speed Renk transmission
Fuel capacity: 80 gallons diesel, for a range of 139 miles
Top speed: 33.44 mph / 53.504 km/h
Armament: 1 47mm FRC with 60 rounds, 1 MG with 1500 rounds in turret

Chassis armor: 35mm front, 20mm sides & rear, 8mm deck, 10mm belly
Turret armor: 35mm front, 20mm sides & rear, 8mm deck

Vickers can offer;

Cruiser Tank Mk IIB: Based on the British A10. Five crew are carried (commander, gunner, loader, radio operator/MG gunner, driver) and the armament consists of one 47mm FRC gun and a co-axial machine gun and another in the front hull plate. Radio is fitted in all tanks. The armour is 6-30mm and weight is 31,700lbs and speed 16mph and range 100 miles. The IICS has the 3.7in howitzer of the I CS. Orders can be fulfilled by Vickers or Metropolitan-Cammell.

A bit surprised the Skoda T-22 or Russian BT-5/7 hasnt been offered

The BT tanks seem to fall short on the armour catigory, the BT-7 having 22mm up front. Same goes for the Atlantean AT-31/32 tanks who also lack the requested firepower mounting 37mm.

A version of the Bille could be adapted to suit the desired weapon, as a 75mm howitzer was recently fitted, it is not seen as an issue.
Radio fitment is not an issue, as Danish lead tanks are fitted with radios.
Weight might be an issue however, but some lightening of the current armour fit should bring it down to the desired weight.

Poland can offer the 7TPA and the 10TP tanks, although we may have to up our production facilities for the 10TP, and the 7TPA will only be offered in 1938.

7TPA (1938 to 1939)
30 km/h top speed
37mm wz.36 Bofors L45
7.92mm wz.30 (Coaxial)
40mm Effective Hull Front
20mm Effective Hull Sides
20mm Effective Turret Front
20mm Effective Turret Sides
10 ton weight
3 man crew

10TP (1937 to 1939)
75 km/h on wheels
50-56 km/h on tracks
47mm gun wz. 37
7.92mm wz.30 (Coaxial)
7.92mm wz.30 (Hull)
30mm Effective Hull Front
20mm Effective Hull Sides
20mm Effective Hull Rear
20mm Effective Turret Front
20mm Effective Turret Sides
20mm Effective Turret Rear
12.8 tons
4 man crew

Interim feedback :


Atlantean :
Interesting, though a little large for what is desired.

Danish : I will look up the Billie again

Polish:
The 10TP appears quite promising.

Skoda:
T-22 : It might come. Same with the Lt-38 Rumania just put out. One issue with NPCs in situations like this is no one to hock their goods.
As for the Russian, the Admiral isn't around. Actually the Belgians want French options.

English : Cruiser Tank IIB sounds very promising, the capability of mounting a CS weapon is an interesting bonus.

German:

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
If the dimensions and the recoil distance of the 47mm FRC gun can be supplied, it is expected that German industry could supply a version of the Panzer II equipped with that weapon, and of course a radio. The standard 7.92mm MG would, of course, be replaced with Belgium's preferred type.

The 47mm is available on the open market, it's specs can easily be provided. The Pz-II Bel specs are noted and politely accepted for consideration.

Dutch : While they offer, not in the running due to nationalistic feelings among the Belgian procurement staff.

Mexico can offer its version of the Atlantean AT-27, it already carries a 47mm cannon.




AT-27 1M1

45 in service

Designs specifications

Length 7 meters
Width 2.75 meters
Height 2.8 meters

Crew 5 men
Passengers 0 men

Weight 16.23 tons.

Engine: Napier-hall 8 cylinder air-cooled inline developing 150 horsepower
Fuel Capacity: 105 gallons
Top Speed: 16.6 MPH
Operating Range: 136 miles

Armament: one 47mm (100 rounds) and two 30cal machine guns (1500 rounds each).
Armor: 42-10mm, Hull - 21mm Front, 20 mm sides, 15 mm rear/12 mm roof/belly.
Turret - 43 mm front, 25 mm sides/rear, 10 mm top

Ground Pressure 14.99 PSI
Power/Weight Ratio 9.24 hp/metric ton

The reliability of the AT-27 and any derivitive at this point in time would be dismal in comparison to the AT-33 and even the smaller AT-31/32 fast tanks, which is why Atlantis didn't offer an upgunned AT-27.
Atlantis may be inclined to offer the AT-34 or 35 designs but the AT-34 mounts a 25mm gun while the AT-35 exceeds the weight specified.

Russian tanks

T-30 (similar to the BT series tank)
Length 5 meters
Width 2.84 meters
Height 2.9 meters

Crew: 3

Weight 11.94 tons.

Engine: 250 horsepower
Fuel Capacity: 50 gallons
Top Speed: 37.93 MPH (60 km/h)
Operating Range: 189 miles

Armament: one 45mm MK I and one 50 cal MG
Armor: 59-7mm, Hull - 59 mm Front, 30 mm sides, 13mm rear, 10 mm roof, 7mm belly.
Turret - 67 mm front, 36 mm sides, 18.6 rear, 18 mm top

T-35 (similar to the Atlantean AT-35 or a lightened T-34 with a 57mm gun)

Length 6 meters
Width 3 meters
Height 3.1 meters

Crew: 4

Weight 18.45 tons.

Engine: 400 horsepower
Fuel Capacity: 80 gallons
Top Speed: 39.29 MPH (64 km/h)
Operating Range: 196 miles

Armament: one 57mm MK I and one 50 cal MG
Armor: 76.3- 7.2mm, Hull - 76.3 mm Front, 38 mm sides, 13mm rear, 15 mm roof, 7.2mm belly.
Turret - 84.8 mm front, 51.2 mm sides, 18.6 rear, 18 mm top

I'd assume French tanks are up to FAR standards with the Hotchkiss H-39, FMC 36 and Renault R-35 more or less as historical, mounting one 37mm and one 7.5 mm MG. Meanwhile the Somua S-35 and Char D-2 could be mounting either a 47mm or 57mm main gun (most likely the later given Russian/Atlantean use). I'm taking a guess and assuming that Stuart would have designed an ARL-44/Char B1 Bis hybrid, something similar in appearance to the Char B1 Ter.

I'm sure Stuart was planning on introducing the AMX-38. The Char Seam and AMX 40 most likely would be under developement.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin

I'd assume French tanks are up to FAR standards with the Hotchkiss H-39, FMC 36 and Renault R-35 more or less as historical,

Thanks for the Russian variants.

It's not crucial to get French entries, but I have waited to post this until after Agent went at least semi-active as France.

Tanks from the South American war will also be looked at, so far only Mexico.

I will give things another couple days, and then take a second careful look at the contestants. After which some nations will be asked to set up obstacle and reliability trials for Belgian staff to attend.

(Sorry, wandered off and neglected this)
Belgian Tank considerations

The Belgian Army, having carefully considered the specifications submitted, has chosen to send observers to view the following tanks in obstacle courses.

France
H-39
S-35

Germany
Panzer II Bel II

Poland
TP7A

SAE
HSR-4T

Once trials are complete, Belgium will split their order, but winds up ordering more tanks overall than anticipated, adding smaller orders from Poland and SAE.

96 + 4 spares from France : H-39
72 + 3 spares from Germany : 13 tonne Panzer II Bel
24 from Poland : TP7A
24 from SAE : HSR-4T

Tanks considered [1]
Atlantis : AT- 33, 19 tonnes
Powerful offensive tank. 5 man crew, large gun. Suitable for a heavy tank.

Czechoslovakia : T-22 (40M Turan I), 18 tonnes
Comparable to the AT-33, 5 man crew, moderate speed. Suitable for a heavy tank.

Czechoslovakia : Lt-33B, 11 tonnes
4 man crew, moderate armor, modest speed.

Denmark : Bille Mk II , >20 tonnes.
Comparable to the AT-33, similar gun, same engine size, superior speed. Suitable for a heavy tank.

France : AMC 35 , 15 tonnes
3 crew, weak armor, modest speed.

France : Char D2, 20 tonnes
3 crew, slow, good armor, suitable for a heavy tank to accompany infantry.

France : FMC 36 , 13 tonnes
2 crew, slow, good armor, suitable to accompany infantry.

France : H-39, 12 tonnes
2 man crew, modest armor and speed.

France : R-35, 10 tonnes
2 crew, slow, good armor, suitable to accompany infantry.

France : S-35, 19.5 tonnes
3 man crew, moderate speed, good armor.

Germany : Panzer II Bel : 10 tonnes
3 man crew, very good tank, well suited for specifications

Germany : Panzer II Bel : 13 tonnes
3 man crew, very good tank, well suited for specifications. 30% heavier than earlier version, mild improvements.

Mexico : AT-27 1M1 , 16 tonnes
5 man crew, slower than several, heavier frontal armor than some. Suitable for a heavy tank.

Netherlands : T-35A , 24 tonnes
5 man crew, moderate speed, heavy armor, Suitable for a heavy tank.

Poland : 7TPA 10 tonnes
3 man crew, good frontal protection, modest top speed.

Poland : 10TP 13 tonnes
4 man crew, Excellent speed, wheeled possibility. Adequate armor.

Russia : T-30, 12 tonnes
3 man crew, Excellent speed, remarkably heavy armor.

Russia : T-35, 18 tonnes
4 man crew, Incredible speed, amazing armor.

South Afrikan Empire : HSR-4T, 14 tonnes
4 crew, modest speed, good armor, combat tested.

United Kingdom : Cruiser Tank Mk IIB : 15 tonnes.
Five man crew, slower than other designs. Adequate arms and armor.

[1] Some tanks weren’t considered as stats appear out of range for period, or storyline (i.e. my own tanks) reasons.

If Belgium is sending observers they may want to take a look at the AT-35 as well. It has the same gun as the AT-33 and improvments in all other area's (speed, armour, reliability).

The main problem with the AT-33 and some others were they were much bigger than what the Belgians are currently looking for. That didn't totally exclude them, and when/if the Belgians move to field some heavy tank companies, they may get a second look.

Tonnage and crew size are the only two things specifically listed for each tank, as the minister with the purse strings is looking closely at cost while meeting the minimum specs.

MAN will get to work on delivering the Panzer II Bel's as ordered. 1937 is a good year to be ordering Panzer IIs, as the Heer is in between orders at the moment for the type, so export orders like this can get to the head of the line and get into production quickly.

Excellent. There will be some teeth gnashing in the army when they see that part of the order

Heh, well, they can console themselves with the thought that this way they will learn the weaknesses and strengths of the Pz II.

From my perspective, it looks clear that the Belgians are buying from their two largest neighbors to keep both happy, and from two other interesting and non-threatening sources to keep everyone from getting too complacent.

If there are any other foreign countries that would like to place an order for Pz II derivatives (like Brazil, perhaps, or Peru, or others), now's a good time to contact Daimler-Benz and MAN. Guns up to the size of the Belgian 47mm FRC can be installed, and weights of up to 13 tons can be accommodated on the current chassis design (with appropriate changes to the suspension). Gasoline or diesel engines can be provided or installed as desired. It won't be the heaviest, most powerful tank in the world, but by this point it's well-proven mechanically and can give good service within it's limits.