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1

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 6:00pm

Design rules questions

For vessels below 3000 ton, is both cross sectional and composite strength 0.5 the lower limit?

Are TT´s to be included in misc. weight?

2

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 6:47pm

Just cross sectional.

On Torpedo's, some do not include the weight of torpedo's but IMO SS does include the weight of torps in the launcher. Reloads on the other hand would definately be extra misc weight.

3

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 6:54pm

Quoted

IMO SS does include the weight of torps in the launcher


SS definitely doesn't include torpedoes in the weight, it only makes calculations on space grounds. Example, add 1 million torpedo tubes; weights stay the same.

4

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 7:03pm

All versions of Springsharp?

5

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 7:28pm

The latest version is different so that if you enter a torpedo length it gives a weight. The weight you get out still seems rather low compared to actual values.

6

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 7:35pm

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Just cross sectional.

On Torpedo's, some do not include the weight of torpedo's but IMO SS does include the weight of torps in the launcher. Reloads on the other hand would definately be extra misc weight.


So what is the lower limit for composite strength below 3 Kt?

I noticed that the latest Italian, Atlantean and US designs were all below 0.75 Composite strength

7

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 7:51pm

Check the design rules for gentlemen for this, it's here: http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?threadid=2074&sid=

For ships smaller than 3,000 tons, the important factor is usually cross-sectional hull strength, not composite.

8

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 8:03pm

Its becuse I checked the rules that I ask since composite isnt mentioned

9

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 9:00pm

It is mentioned, in 1a, 1c, & 1d. Cross-sectional is only mentioned in 1b.

10

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 9:03pm

No it isnt it only gives composite strengths for vessels over 3001 tons

11

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 9:07pm

Read 1a again: it applies to ALL hulls except as noted. In the case of hulls of less than 3000 tons AND a speed of over 24 kts (ie, 1b), you have to have a cross-sectional strength over .5 (composite will be higher, but isn't the limiting factor here). In 1c and 1d, you have other cases where the composite strength is mentioned.

12

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 9:15pm

Simply put......

.....both Cross-Sectional AND Composite need to be over .50 strenght.

I've had designs shoot down because they weren't!

13

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 9:41pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Read 1a again: it applies to ALL hulls except as noted. In the case of hulls of less than 3000 tons AND a speed of over 24 kts (ie, 1b), you have to have a cross-sectional strength over .5 (composite will be higher, but isn't the limiting factor here). In 1c and 1d, you have other cases where the composite strength is mentioned.


So your Fletcher class is then against the rules, 0.75 being the lowest composite strength allowed in the rules

14

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 9:51pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Read 1a again: it applies to ALL hulls except as noted. In the case of hulls of less than 3000 tons AND a speed of over 24 kts (ie, 1b), you have to have a cross-sectional strength over .5 (composite will be higher, but isn't the limiting factor here). In 1c and 1d, you have other cases where the composite strength is mentioned.


So your Fletcher class is then against the rules, 0.75 being the lowest composite strength allowed in the rules

Nope, Fletcher's fine.

Quoted

Point 1: Hull strength.
a) Relative composite hull strength should not drop below 1.00 except for the light fast combattants (<6000 tons standard; >24kn)
b) Relative cross-sectional hull strength of light fast combattants of 0-3,000 tons standard should not drop below 0.5
c) In general, light fast combattants of 3,001-4,500 tons standard can have a minimum relative composite hull strength of 0.75 as long as it does not cross the limit as given in point 1b.
d) In general, light fast combattants between 4500 tons and 6000 tons standard can have a minimum relative composite hull strength of 0.9


Fletcher's below 3,000 tons and faster than 24 knots, and so she falls under 1B. If her standard tonnage was 3,001 tons, she'd have to meet 1C instead. But since hull strength is above .50 on both composite and cross-sectional, she's fine.

15

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 10:44pm

And where does it say that only cross sectional strength applies? HH said that 1a applies to ALL hulls except were noted, since hulls below below 3kt are not noted in other than 1b and then only with cross sectional strength according to what he wrote 1a applies to composite strength (ie 1.0).

How simple it would have been to say from the beginning that composite strength does not apply below 3 Kt

16

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 10:59pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad

How simple it would have been to say from the beginning that composite strength does not apply below 3 Kt


Composite Strenght DOES apply.
It must never be below .50, irrespective of the vessels overall strenght

17

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 11:02pm

That seems to be an unspoken agreement but it isn´t stated in the Gentlemen´s rule

18

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 11:03pm

It's been a rule for a looooong time, but I don't know when it was initiated.

19

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 11:29pm

1a has an exception to it's statement that composite strength shall not fall below 1.00, that exception is small fast hulls (defined as 6,000 tons or less, and 24 kts or more). 1b, 1c, & 1d clarify what the rules are for those ships.

20

Saturday, December 6th 2008, 11:29pm

Uh... I think it reads pretty clearly, myself.