WesWorld

The Contest for new bids is now closed.


The Project designs have been evaluated by the Naval Constructors Board and the Naval Staff. If any design is approved in its current form it goes to the Naval Constructors Board to give the go ahead for the Project Team to commence drawing work. If the Project is not approved it gets refined again under the same TTR. In the unlikely event all bids are rejected then a new TTR will be issued.

Here follows an assessment of each design and required improvements or comments.

HDW 1 Design (33,890 tons): Project 117A
This first design was tendered before the design competition began and offers a good all round design. Size and cost are at the upper end of the desired scale but may not pose problems with future infrastructure improvements to enable home repairs. The heavy AA armament is noted but six twin 115mm DP mounts is weak compared with all the other competitors. The armour scheme fully meets the TTR as does speed and the very high range. The underwater protection nearly meets the TTR requirement and is rated as very good.

HDW 2 Design (23,234 tons): Project 117B
Tendered before the competition began, superseded in all respects by Project 117C which is a similar shp but with several advantages. Further assessment abandoned.

HDW 3 Design (27,522 tons): Project 117C
While the use of triple 11in guns is noteworthy the Naval Staff feel such a calibre is ample for anti heavy cruiser missions and commerce raiding but given the strength of potential enemy battlecruisers it cannot accept this weapon. The high RPG magazines with 145 shells per gun is noted with interest as is the high speed and high range (best out of all the entries). The novel use of a de-capping belt ahead of the main belt is very noteworthy and is being studied in detail by the Naval Constructors Board and the Scientific – Technical Research Committee. The underwater protection falls far the TTR requirement and is rated as average poor. Overall it meets nearly all of the TTR.

Vickers Design: Project 117D
Very large and expensive, this design meets all gunnery and armour criteria. The use of Chilean 15in guns is welcomed, the main belt and deck armour meets all requirements and the standard British anti-torpedo system may prove acceptable to save weight over the ambitious initial TTR recommendations in this area. The underwater protection meets the TTR requirement and is rated as very good. The range is very good with high cruising speed; seakeeping is estimated to be the best. Size and cost are at the top end of the desired scale but may not pose problems with future infrastructure improvements to enable home repairs.

Danish Design: Project 117E
The Danish entry was expected to be good given the skill Danish designers have of getting the best ships out of modest proportions. Project 117E meets all length requirements and despite being the heaviest ship meets all the main requirements. The Chilean 15in guns are noted as is the exceptionally heavy 115mm fit, the large numbers of 37mm AA guns to provide excellent AA protection. The armour scheme, speed, range and seakeeping are all satisfactory and meet the requirements of the TTR. The underwater protection very nearly meets the TTR requirement and is rated as excellent.

Italian Design 1 (36,666 tons): Project 117F
Size and cost are at the upper end of the desired scale but may not pose problems with future infrastructure improvements to enable home repairs. The use of the better Italian 15in gun is understandable and the Naval Staff have looked closely at these guns for many years in many pre-war battleship and battlecruiser designs. The exceptionally heavy 115mm fit (twelve twin mounts) and the large numbers of 37mm AA guns not only provide excellent AA protection but give a useful AA escort role for the new aircraft carriers. Speed is good for a ship of this size and the high range at such a high cruising speed (20kts) is commendable given a likely commerce raiding role in which maximum economical range at the best speeds for transit and evasion is paramount. The belt armour is thinner than the Naval Constructors Board wishes but the splinter belt forward is a welcome feature. The underwater protection nearly meets the TTR requirement and is rated as very good. Seakeeping is low but may not be a serious handicap with a revised design.

Italian Ansaldo Study 2: Project 117G
The 245m length of this design corresponds to a Type 3.5 slipway or drydock and may not be a problem with future infrastructure upgrading.
The radical layout has features of merit and is worth further examination. The Chilean guns are welcomed and note has been paid to Ansaldo’s suggestion to fit Italy's own 381/50 gun. The triple turret aft mounts mount the 190mm gun [OOC the SS does not have the 115kg shell weight of the 190mm fitted to my CA has but I’m sure it can be fitted with no problems] to cover the stern and this is acceptable to the Naval Staff. The all-forward arrangement of the main armament saves weight and space is not the best from tactical considerations and given recent war experience all-round fire is a necessary feature, with superior speed this ship may quickly reach bearings ahead of the target which would limit arcs or force the ship to slow down and thus use her full speed advantage. The large 115mm DP armament is noted and an AA escort role would well suit this ship. Only 20 115mm are featured in the specs but the drawing shows room for 24. Please could Ansaldo please confirm how many would be fitted? Another Ansaldo study with three triple 15in turrets on the same hull is mentioned but not included; the Naval Staff would like to see this design to compare. The armour fitted is thought to be adequate and the torpedo defence system is rated as good but more tests are needed to proof Ansaldo’s claims. The high speed, 35knts with a moderate degree of overload at light condition, is among the best of all the designs. The range requirement is fully met with a high cruising speed although the higher cruising speed of the Littorio is a decisive factor missing in this ship.

Coldmere Private Venture: Project 117H
This design mirrors pre-war Argentine light battlecruiser designs and would serve well as a commerce raider or CA killer. The belt armour and deck armour is slightly too weak to be acceptable in this contest but the design is quite useful and worthy of future study more closely. The underwater protection nearly meets the TTR requirement and but is rated as poor given the small size of the ship and any likely torpedo hit effects. Stability is poor, this needs rectifying. The Scientific – Technical Research Committee were most interested in the re-bored 320mm guns. This is a novel solution and may prove more acceptable than a new gun calibre.

Danzig/ Coldmere Design: Project 117I
This design is noteworthy because it combines the best armour scheme presented here (although turret and barbette armour should be thicker) with a powerful 115mm DP and AA layout and acceptable speed and range. The underwater protection exceeds the TTR requirement by 10mm and is rated as very good. The new 12in guns have heavy shells but such new guns cannot match the latest 15in and bigger guns likely to be fielded by an adversary.

Atlantis Design 1 (36,920 tons): Project 117J
This design meets all the basic criteria. The belt armour and turret and barbette armour fully meets the TTR and is among the best thicknesses offered in among the designs (and the best main belt height). The torpedo protection system fully meets the requirements for thicknesses and is rated as excellent. The main objection to the design is the 14in guns, not because of any fault with those guns but the problems of supply. If surplus US 14in guns could be procured for these turrets for commonality for the Libertad Class battleships then this objection would be lifted and may be the best armament solution. The high range allied to a very high cruising speed equals the Italian designs and is a very good tactical feature. Seakeeping is lower than specified but not too poor at low speeds.

Atlantis Design 2 (39,650 tons): Project 117K
This design meets all the basic criteria. The complete armour scheme is the thickest and most comprehensive offered here. The torpedo protection system fully meets the requirements for thicknesses and is rated as excellent but is slightly inferior to Project 117J. The use of Chilean 15in guns is noted as is the good 115mm DP armament but the numbers of light AA are too low and the 12.7mm HMG is nearly useless as an adequate AA weapon. The high range allied to a very high cruising speed equals the Italian designs and is a very good tactical feature. Seakeeping is lower than specified but not too poor at low speeds and is better than Project 117J.

Overall Recommendations for Improvements

HDW 1 Design (33,890 tons): Project 117A
The Naval Constructors Board recommends that eight 115mm DP mounts should be fitted. A version with three twin Chilean 15in guns should be submitted for comparison.

HDW 2 Design (23,234 tons): Project 117B
The Naval Constructors Board recommends this design is terminated owing to the superiority of Project 117C.

HDW 3 Design (27,522 tons): Project 117C
The Naval Constructors Board recommends a revised version with less CT armour and maybe an extra 5-10mm TB armour as a comparison. Also a version with the re-bored 320mm guns is worth studying.

Vickers Design: Project 117D
The Naval Constructors Board recommends no changes to this design but feels an alternative version should be submitted that more properly fits the TTR.

Danish Design: Project 117E
The Naval Constructors Board recommends no major design changes but weight reduction measures would be a good move forward. One 115mm mount could be sacrificed at no overall loss in capability.

Italian Design (36,666 tons): Project 117F
The Naval Constructors Board recommends a version with the Chilean 15in guns as originally asked for as an alternative design and some improvements in seakeeping if possible.

Italian Ansaldo Study 2: Project 117G
The Naval Constructors Board recommends the conventional design be offered to compare. The numbers of 115mm guns need to be confirmed, twelve twin 37mm and four sextuple 20mm mounts should suffice for close-range AA. Weight for four seaplanes would be required for this radical design to make fullest possible use of the quarterdeck space. A cruising speed of 20kts would be a good option to explore.

Coldmere Private Venture: Project 117H
The Naval Constructors Board recommends thicker armour overall, maybe also an enlarged design with three triple 320mm turrets to compare. More stability required.

Danzig/ Coldmere Design: Project 117I
The Naval Constructors Board recommends no changes other than the re-bored 320mm gun.

Atlantis Design 1 (36,920 tons): Project 117J
The Naval Constructors Board recommends fitting US 14in guns if obtainable.

Atlantis Design 2 (39,650 tons): Project 117K
The Naval Constructors Board recommends another 4-6 twin 37mm mounts or two quad 37mm mounts.

So far the Naval Staff have confirmed the following as possible contenders for Stage Two.
Projects 117C, 117E, 117F, 117G and 118B.


So now I leave things to you guys to develop your ideas and offer the suggested improvements I desire. You do not have to follow all the improvements and I would be happy if you guys choose the best of the designs you've submitted to have the most chance of winning. None of them are bad but some offer more than others. So far the Italian and German designs seem the best overall but the smaller designs are intresting.

Hrolf, whats the chance of surplus 14in guns?

Revised designs from Danzig/Coldemere

Design I

Argentine BC Modified, Danzig/Coldemere Battle Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
24 705 t light; 25 875 t standard; 27 525 t normal; 28 845 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
721,78 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
220,00 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m x 8,00 m

Armament:
6 - 12,60" / 320 mm guns (3x2 guns), 999,81lbs / 453,51kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (10x2 guns), 55,12lbs / 25,00kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x6 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7 154 lbs / 3 245 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,8" / 350 mm 380,58 ft / 116,00 m 11,09 ft / 3,38 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 7,87" / 200 mm 380,58 ft / 116,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m
Main Belt covers 81 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,36" / 60 mm 469,16 ft / 143,00 m 24,11 ft / 7,35 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 7,09" / 180 mm
2nd: 3,15" / 80 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 2,36" / 60 mm
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 106 115 shp / 79 161 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 7 500nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2 970 tons

Complement:
1 068 - 1 389

Cost:
£10,960 million / $43,839 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 872 tons, 3,2 %
Armour: 11 100 tons, 40,3 %
- Belts: 3 636 tons, 13,2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 989 tons, 3,6 %
- Armament: 1 373 tons, 5,0 %
- Armour Deck: 5 025 tons, 18,3 %
- Conning Tower: 77 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 2 941 tons, 10,7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 591 tons, 34,8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 820 tons, 10,2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46 608 lbs / 21 141 Kg = 46,6 x 12,6 " / 320 mm shells or 7,5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05
Metacentric height 4,1 ft / 1,3 m
Roll period: 17,0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,15

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,620
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30,58 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31,17 ft / 9,50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Mid (50 %): 22,97 ft / 7,00 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Stern: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 21,98 ft / 6,70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80,6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 173,9 %
Waterplane Area: 45 995 Square feet or 4 273 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 715 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,99
- Longitudinal: 1,15
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform



Design II

Argentine BC Modified II, Danzig/Coldemere Battle Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
25 583 t light; 26 778 t standard; 28 768 t normal; 30 361 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
721,78 ft / 721,78 ft x 78,74 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
220,00 m / 220,00 m x 24,00 m x 9,00 m

Armament:
6 - 12,60" / 320 mm guns (3x2 guns), 999,81lbs / 453,51kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (10x2 guns), 55,12lbs / 25,00kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x6 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7 154 lbs / 3 245 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15,7" / 400 mm 400,26 ft / 122,00 m 11,09 ft / 3,38 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 7,87" / 200 mm 400,26 ft / 122,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,36" / 60 mm 469,16 ft / 143,00 m 24,11 ft / 7,35 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 7,87" / 200 mm 7,87" / 200 mm
2nd: 3,15" / 80 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 2,36" / 60 mm
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 121 827 shp / 90 883 Kw = 31,00 kts
Range 9 000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3 583 tons

Complement:
1 103 - 1 435

Cost:
£11,460 million / $45,839 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 872 tons, 3,0 %
Armour: 11 503 tons, 40,0 %
- Belts: 4 144 tons, 14,4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 989 tons, 3,4 %
- Armament: 1 557 tons, 5,4 %
- Armour Deck: 4 733 tons, 16,5 %
- Conning Tower: 80 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 3 377 tons, 11,7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 631 tons, 33,5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 185 tons, 11,1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46 943 lbs / 21 293 Kg = 47,0 x 12,6 " / 320 mm shells or 6,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 4,2 ft / 1,3 m
Roll period: 16,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,13

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,600
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,17 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30,54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31,17 ft / 9,50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Mid (50 %): 26,25 ft / 8,00 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Stern: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 23,36 ft / 7,12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169,9 %
Waterplane Area: 43 322 Square feet or 4 025 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 715 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,97
- Longitudinal: 1,31
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Hood,

if there are no hard limits such as maximum length, budget, displacement (read: material) etc. how could a 20000ts design compete with a 40000ts design? The Argentinean NCB does not rate costs at all, right? So what would prevent a contender to offer a 100000ts design with twenty 15inch guns in five quads, 35kn speed and 30000nm range at 25kn?

Design teams all over the world can offer millions of designs but without guidance by hard specs it would be coincidence to get the design right.....:o(

I always assumed the length requirement to be the key but that is perhaps wrong. Perhaps the Argentines are pulling the Rivadavia stunt again...

James, would you object to a revised 117J design armed with 12x12" guns? Would you object to a slightly larger 117K design?

The recomended number of 37mm guns is easy enough to add to design 117K.
As for the 12.7mm guns, they are intended to be used as a deterant for MTB's but if they are considered useless they can be deleted from the design.

Oops, looks like I'm a tad slow...

Even though Argentina's not taking any new bids, Chile will *ahem* disclose to their allies and neighbors some plans which Chile is mulling over, in the event Argentina has interest...

The following is an attempt to fit the Chilean 15" gun on a reasonably-sized high-speed 720' hull. Probably not going to be used - Chile will either make a proper 3x3 design that's slower, or revert to smaller guns.

Quoted

Capitan Prat, Chilean Battlecruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
32,885 t light; 34,401 t standard; 38,178 t normal; 41,200 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
731.93 ft / 721.78 ft x 82.02 ft (Bulges 98.43 ft) x 32.15 ft (normal load)
223.09 m / 220.00 m x 25.00 m (Bulges 30.00 m) x 9.80 m

Armament:
6 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,699.76lbs / 771.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2 mounts), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised guns
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (6 mounts), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised guns
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11,081 lbs / 5,026 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 557.74 ft / 170.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
2.00" / 51 mm 482.94 ft / 147.20 m 33.14 ft / 10.10 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.25" / 6 mm -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.25" / 6 mm -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.25" / 6 mm -

- Armour deck: 5.30" / 135 mm, Conning tower: 9.00" / 229 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 209,384 shp / 156,201 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,799 tons

Complement:
1,365 - 1,775

Cost:
£17.014 million / $68.056 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,376 tons, 3.6 %
Armour: 11,420 tons, 29.9 %
- Belts: 3,308 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,184 tons, 3.1 %
- Armament: 2,347 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 4,362 tons, 11.4 %
- Conning Tower: 220 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 5,803 tons, 15.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,181 tons, 37.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,293 tons, 13.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 105 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
50,557 lbs / 22,932 Kg = 30.0 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 7.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 19.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.585
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 40.68 ft / 12.40 m
- Forecastle (17 %): 30.51 ft / 9.30 m
- Mid (50 %): 28.87 ft / 8.80 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 27.23 ft / 8.30 m
- Stern: 28.87 ft / 8.80 m
- Average freeboard: 29.70 ft / 9.05 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 179.1 %
Waterplane Area: 44,484 Square feet or 4,133 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 185 lbs/sq ft or 901 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 2.03
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Chile has also considered the 13.4" gun in three triple turrets... The disadvantage is that Chile won't actually be using the artillery it went to so much effort to develop!

Quoted

Capitan Prat, Chilean Battlecruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
32,661 t light; 34,401 t standard; 38,178 t normal; 41,200 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
731.93 ft / 721.78 ft x 82.02 ft (Bulges 98.43 ft) x 32.15 ft (normal load)
223.09 m / 220.00 m x 25.00 m (Bulges 30.00 m) x 9.80 m

Armament:
9 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,400.00lbs / 635.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
24 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (12x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (6 mounts), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised guns
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 14,287 lbs / 6,480 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 557.74 ft / 170.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.50" / 38 mm 482.94 ft / 147.20 m 33.14 ft / 10.10 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 7.00" / 178 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.25" / 6 mm -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.25" / 6 mm -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.25" / 6 mm -

- Armour deck: 4.70" / 119 mm, Conning tower: 9.00" / 229 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 197,315 shp / 147,197 Kw = 33.50 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,799 tons

Complement:
1,365 - 1,775

Cost:
£17.559 million / $70.236 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,560 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 10,579 tons, 27.7 %
- Belts: 3,308 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 888 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 2,296 tons, 6.0 %
- Armour Deck: 3,868 tons, 10.1 %
- Conning Tower: 220 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 5,469 tons, 14.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,948 tons, 39.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,517 tons, 14.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 105 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
49,810 lbs / 22,594 Kg = 41.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 6.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 19.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.85
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.585
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 40.68 ft / 12.40 m
- Forecastle (17 %): 30.51 ft / 9.30 m
- Mid (50 %): 28.87 ft / 8.80 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 27.23 ft / 8.30 m
- Stern: 28.87 ft / 8.80 m
- Average freeboard: 29.70 ft / 9.05 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 179.1 %
Waterplane Area: 44,484 Square feet or 4,133 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs/sq ft or 950 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 2.11
- Overall: 1.02
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Chile also has some amusement with the French battlecruisers. I just happen to have a very interesting mimic of the Paris...

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Hrolf, whats the chance of surplus 14in guns?

From the US? Depends on how many you want. The thing is, without their turrets, you don't save that much in cost, because the guns themselves don't weigh that much.


On the HDW design 117C, is Argentina suggesting replacing the 28.3cm main battery with 6 32cm weapons? I'll have to see how that works out. On the 117A design with 6 Chilean 15" guns, that seems a retrograde step compared to 9 35 cm guns firing shells almost as heavy (771 kg vs 700 kg).

Here's a version of 117C with 32cm guns and increased torpedo protection.

Pampas II, Argentine Battlecruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
27,623 t light; 28,752 t standard; 31,031 t normal; 32,854 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
746.85 ft / 721.78 ft x 88.58 ft x 31.17 ft (normal load)
227.64 m / 220.00 m x 27.00 m x 9.50 m

Armament:
6 - 12.60" / 320 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,102.31lbs / 500.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (8x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft, 8 raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,420 lbs / 3,366 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.4" / 290 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.36" / 60 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 26.90 ft / 8.20 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.6" / 320 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 9.45" / 240 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 159,430 shp / 118,935 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,101 tons

Complement:
1,168 - 1,519

Cost:
£12.545 million / $50.181 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 851 tons, 2.7 %
Armour: 10,500 tons, 33.8 %
- Belts: 3,117 tons, 10.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,103 tons, 3.6 %
- Armament: 2,037 tons, 6.6 %
- Armour Deck: 4,041 tons, 13.0 %
- Conning Tower: 201 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,419 tons, 14.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,694 tons, 37.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,408 tons, 11.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
52,860 lbs / 23,977 Kg = 52.9 x 12.6 " / 320 mm shells or 7.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 16.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.545
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.15 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 37.73 ft / 11.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Mid (50 %): 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Stern: 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Average freeboard: 29.37 ft / 8.95 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 216.4 %
Waterplane Area: 46,233 Square feet or 4,295 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 162 lbs/sq ft or 791 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.89
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Belt armor is composed of a 50mm decapping plate backed by a 240mm main belt. The upper belt is an extension of the decapping plate.

160 tons reserved for aircraft, radar, and growth.

Here's a version of 117A with 16 115mm guns, decapping plate, and other minor tweaks.

Pampas, Argentine Battlecruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
34,195 t light; 35,972 t standard; 38,603 t normal; 40,707 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
811.52 ft / 787.40 ft x 91.86 ft (Bulges 98.43 ft) x 31.99 ft (normal load)
247.35 m / 240.00 m x 28.00 m (Bulges 30.00 m) x 9.75 m

Armament:
9 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,543.24lbs / 700.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (8x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 14,834 lbs / 6,729 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.6" / 295 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.97" / 50 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 29.27 ft / 8.92 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 6.69" / 170 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 9.45" / 240 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 157,564 shp / 117,543 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,735 tons

Complement:
1,376 - 1,790

Cost:
£17.068 million / $68.271 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,572 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 12,355 tons, 32.0 %
- Belts: 3,440 tons, 8.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,091 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 3,020 tons, 7.8 %
- Armour Deck: 4,571 tons, 11.8 %
- Conning Tower: 233 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,367 tons, 11.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,691 tons, 40.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,408 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 210 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
58,373 lbs / 26,478 Kg = 44.6 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 8.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 18.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.545
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Stern: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Average freeboard: 27.03 ft / 8.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 190.0 %
Waterplane Area: 52,304 Square feet or 4,859 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs/sq ft or 954 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Main belt consists of a 50mm decapping plate backed by 305mm main belt. Upper belt is an extension of the decapping plate.

210 tons reserved for aircraft, radar, and growth.

And here's a version of 117A with German 38cm guns (Chilean 38cms could be substituted with an increase in miscellaneous weight or ammunition). HDW is pleased with the protection of this vessel, but not sure the reduction in number of barrels is a good idea.

Pampas, Argentine Battlecruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
34,310 t light; 35,972 t standard; 38,603 t normal; 40,707 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
811.52 ft / 787.40 ft x 91.86 ft (Bulges 98.43 ft) x 31.99 ft (normal load)
247.35 m / 240.00 m x 28.00 m (Bulges 30.00 m) x 9.75 m

Armament:
6 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,984.16lbs / 900.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (10x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,071 lbs / 5,929 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.6" / 370 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
2.36" / 60 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 29.27 ft / 8.92 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 6.69" / 170 mm 15.0" / 380 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 9.45" / 240 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 157,564 shp / 117,543 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,735 tons

Complement:
1,376 - 1,790

Cost:
£16.206 million / $64.824 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,380 tons, 3.6 %
Armour: 13,275 tons, 34.4 %
- Belts: 4,279 tons, 11.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,309 tons, 3.4 %
- Armament: 2,883 tons, 7.5 %
- Armour Deck: 4,571 tons, 11.8 %
- Conning Tower: 233 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,367 tons, 11.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,058 tons, 39.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,293 tons, 11.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 230 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
61,673 lbs / 27,974 Kg = 36.8 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 9.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 18.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.545
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Stern: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Average freeboard: 27.03 ft / 8.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 190.0 %
Waterplane Area: 52,304 Square feet or 4,859 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 187 lbs/sq ft or 915 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.52
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Main belt consists of a 50mm decapping plate backed by the 320mm main belt. Upper belt is an extension of the decapping plate.

230 tons reserved for aircraft, radar, and growth.

The TTR stands at it is.

The purpose of round two is to refine the designs I've recieved. None of the designs stink but some don't fully meet the TTR (I know its a tough set of proposals).

So far only the Italian and German designs have met the classic BC requirement. The Coldmere design Hoo has proposed is good at raiding and CA killing but just how much did Pampas do of either of those roles. Not much. Instead she faced enemy ships stronger than her and took a pounding.
What I want is a ship that can fight any likely capital unit that faces her. I may want one or two in the longer term to rebuild the fleet. Thus displacement (read cost) is not as important as what the ship can offer and do best.

Length is a minor issue. Not for slips, but drydocks. I have one Type 3. It needs upgrading to meet the bigger ships but the extra cost may be well worth it. the problem is funds. I could build a Type 3.5 but the difference between a Type 3 and Type 4 is only 50m. A type 3.5 would be 245m. Which would be best? Any 240m ship will be built abroad.
However slips can be made longer, ships can't as easily so I don't want to buy an inferior ship now only to find when she completes I can afford the dock. In any case the 220m ships are mostly inferior to the 240m ones so far.

Armament is a stumbling block I'm afriad. I'm not sure what is best. The issue of commonality is good to save me money for ammunition. If I buy two ships its not a big issue. I think anything smaller than 13in is too weak for these ships.
We have;
Chilean 15in
Italian 15in
US 14in
German 13in
German 11in
Coldmere re-bored 320mm

If the armament issue clouds the whole contest then the TTR will be re-issued with one calibre only.

Pulling the Rivadavia stunt did appeal... I won't lie and say some of your ideas have influenced the Project 118B in some aspects.

Wes,
Both ships are pretty big, anything much heavier will be too expensive (nearly 40,000 tons). At that price I might as well look at some battleships. Twelve 320mm or German 13in would be acceptable for Project 117J.

Well, it's actually German 13.78" originally, and now I've added the German 15".

One last submission wit a length of 245m

Argentine BC Modified III, Danzig/Coldemere Battle Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
30 757 t light; 32 321 t standard; 34 707 t normal; 36 616 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
803,81 ft / 803,81 ft x 85,30 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
245,00 m / 245,00 m x 26,00 m x 9,00 m

Armament:
9 - 12,60" / 320 mm guns (3x3 guns), 999,81lbs / 453,51kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (10x2 guns), 55,12lbs / 25,00kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x6 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 10 153 lbs / 4 605 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15,7" / 400 mm 436,35 ft / 133,00 m 11,09 ft / 3,38 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 7,87" / 200 mm 436,35 ft / 133,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m
Main Belt covers 84 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,36" / 60 mm 469,16 ft / 143,00 m 24,11 ft / 7,35 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 7,87" / 200 mm 7,87" / 200 mm
2nd: 3,15" / 80 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 2,36" / 60 mm
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 132 623 shp / 98 937 Kw = 31,00 kts
Range 9 500nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4 295 tons

Complement:
1 270 - 1 652

Cost:
£14,394 million / $57,576 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 247 tons, 3,6 %
Armour: 13 212 tons, 38,1 %
- Belts: 4 520 tons, 13,0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 989 tons, 2,8 %
- Armament: 1 903 tons, 5,5 %
- Armour Deck: 5 710 tons, 16,5 %
- Conning Tower: 90 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 3 676 tons, 10,6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12 422 tons, 35,8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 950 tons, 11,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
56 451 lbs / 25 606 Kg = 56,5 x 12,6 " / 320 mm shells or 8,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 4,7 ft / 1,4 m
Roll period: 16,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,76
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,600
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,42 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32,16 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32,81 ft / 10,00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Mid (50 %): 26,25 ft / 8,00 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Stern: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 23,49 ft / 7,16 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83,2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178,0 %
Waterplane Area: 52 265 Square feet or 4 856 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 162 lbs/sq ft or 792 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,99
- Longitudinal: 1,12
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Hrolf, whats the chance of surplus 14in guns?

From the US? Depends on how many you want. The thing is, without their turrets, you don't save that much in cost, because the guns themselves don't weigh that much.

No, but modifications to increase elevation should be possible, and the turrets you're lifting from the Tennessees and Lexingtons are presumably individual-sleeved like the preceeding New Mexico's, so the turrets shouldn't be in need of serious replacement (like say, the New York or Nevada/Pennsylvania turrets).

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Hrolf, whats the chance of surplus 14in guns?

From the US? Depends on how many you want. The thing is, without their turrets, you don't save that much in cost, because the guns themselves don't weigh that much.

No, but modifications to increase elevation should be possible, and the turrets you're lifting from the Tennessees and Lexingtons are presumably individual-sleeved like the preceeding New Mexico's, so the turrets shouldn't be in need of serious replacement (like say, the New York or Nevada/Pennsylvania turrets).

True. I was thinking the Argentines would be interested in twin turrets, but if they're interested in triples, it coud be possible. The US hasn't started refitting any Lexingtons yet so no turrets from them yet.

Following a common trend the design team in Coldmere has skiped the 220 dock length and budget restrains and has put together a ship that is capable to compete with everything afloat these days. A last tribute to the original idea to save money and material is the 320mm caliber for the designs main guns.

Projekt 117H-2, Argentinean Battleship laid down 1937

Displacement:
40.923 t light; 42.726 t standard; 47.688 t normal; 51.657 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
811,91 ft / 793,96 ft x 114,83 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
247,47 m / 242,00 m x 35,00 m x 9,00 m

Armament:
12 - 12,60" / 320 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1.058,22lbs / 480,00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (10x2 guns), 46,40lbs / 21,05kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (10 mounts), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13.663 lbs / 6.198 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14,2" / 360 mm 400,26 ft / 122,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 78% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,36" / 60 mm 400,26 ft / 122,00 m 29,53 ft / 9,00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13,4" / 340 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 13,4" / 340 mm
2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 1,57" / 40 mm
3rd: 0,47" / 12 mm - -
4th: 0,47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 1,57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 194.227 shp / 144.893 Kw = 31,00 kts
Range 8.000nm at 20,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8.932 tons

Complement:
1.613 - 2.097

Cost:
£19,347 million / $77,389 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1.620 tons, 3,4%
Armour: 16.281 tons, 34,1%
- Belts: 4.282 tons, 9,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1.033 tons, 2,2%
- Armament: 3.500 tons, 7,3%
- Armour Deck: 7.422 tons, 15,6%
- Conning Tower: 45 tons, 0,1%
Machinery: 5.383 tons, 11,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17.438 tons, 36,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.765 tons, 14,2%
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
78.157 lbs / 35.451 Kg = 78,2 x 12,6 " / 320 mm shells or 12,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
Metacentric height 7,2 ft / 2,2 m
Roll period: 17,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,05

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,620
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28,18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31,27 ft / 9,53 m
- Forecastle (30%): 24,61 ft / 7,50 m
- Mid (50%): 24,61 ft / 7,50 m
- Quarterdeck (20%): 24,61 ft / 7,50 m
- Stern: 24,61 ft / 7,50 m
- Average freeboard: 25,41 ft / 7,74 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77,0%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 197,4%
Waterplane Area: 67.934 Square feet or 6.311 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs/sq ft or 932 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,98
- Longitudinal: 1,23
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Ansaldo would like to offer a slightly larger version of their design to incorporate the wishes of the Argentine design staff. The other study based on this hull had 9x305/46 guns which Ansaldo do not feel present good enough striking power.

The main armament remains the same with the Chilean 381/51 used but Ansaldo feels that the Italian 381/50 is a better choice, having better performance and a proven design. The fit of 115/45 guns has been left unchanged also. A battery of 37/54 and 20/80 light AA guns has been added in this detailed stage. The 37/54 being mounted in Breda's quadruple stabilised mounting.

Some slight changes have been made the protective scheme, with splinter armour added forwards of the citadel to reduce flooding risk. A decapping scheme was investigated but could not be incorporated whilst remaining at a small weight. The outerplate would have to be 70mm to cope with the likely threat of 380mm shells which leaves an insufficient inner thickness.

The bunkerage is increased to give a higher radius of action at high cruising speed. The result of the increase in weight is a ship that is slightly slower but can still only be rated as excellent.

A larger catapult is mounted aft, along with space below decks for four aircraft.

Ansaldo believes that this design presents the best choice for the Argentine Navy now, and over the next decade or more.


Study 2b laid down 1937

Displacement:
31,310 t light; 33,079 t standard; 36,669 t normal; 39,541 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(820.22 ft / 803.81 ft) x 88.58 ft (Bulges 95.14 ft) x (30.51 / 32.45 ft)
(250.00 m / 245.00 m) x 27.00 m (Bulges 29.00 m) x (9.30 / 9.89 m)

Armament:
5 - 15.00" / 381 mm 51.0 cal guns - 1,699.76lbs / 771.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1937 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
3 - 7.48" / 190 mm 52.0 cal guns - 253.53lbs / 115.00kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1937 Model
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
20 - 4.53" / 115 mm 45.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 300 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1937 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 54.0 cal guns - 1.66lbs / 0.75kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model
6 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 80.0 cal guns - 0.28lbs / 0.13kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model
4 x 2 row sextuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 10,408 lbs / 4,721 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 498.69 ft / 152.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 82.02 ft / 25.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
223.10 ft / 68.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 498.69 ft / 152.00 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 9.06" / 230 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.47" / 12 mm 0.47" / 12 mm -
5th: 0.47" / 12 mm 0.47" / 12 mm -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 4.72" / 120 mm For and Aft decks

- Conning towers: Forward 2.76" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 180,000 shp / 134,280 Kw = 33.43 kts
Range 7,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,462 tons

Complement:
1,324 - 1,722

Cost:
£15.870 million / $63.479 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,511 tons, 6.8 %
Armour: 9,597 tons, 26.2 %
- Belts: 3,127 tons, 8.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 763 tons, 2.1 %
- Armament: 2,132 tons, 5.8 %
- Armour Deck: 3,510 tons, 9.6 %
- Conning Tower: 66 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,989 tons, 13.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,812 tons, 37.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,359 tons, 14.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.1 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- Hull above water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
55,658 lbs / 25,246 Kg = 33.0 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 7.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.558
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.60 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 28.22 ft / 8.60 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 201.5 %
Waterplane Area: 51,734 Square feet or 4,806 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 907 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.57
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

280mm@15°
Deck 36+125, 36+105

Ansaldo would like to reoffer a modified version of the Littorio Class as well. This version is much closer to the Littorio Class that are almost coming into service with the Marina Italiano so the design work and cost will be less.

It proved possible to meet most of the Argentine Staff's wishes with only a small increase in weight. The belt armour is identical to the Littorio scheme only without the extra internal plates. The deck armour remains slightly thinner. It was not possible to increase the seakeeping much given the fixed hull depth available but more flare has been incorporated forwards to reduce spray. The seakeeping cannot be regarded as being poor however.

Ansaldo feels that this design more than matches the Argentine Navy's wishes but may be slightly too expensive. However, it will be cheaper than other similar sized ships as the vast majority of the design work, manufacturing workup and some production has been done already on the very similar Littorio Class ships.

Ansaldo 1b laid down 1937

Displacement:
37,497 t light; 39,748 t standard; 43,796 t normal; 47,034 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(816.69 ft / 787.40 ft) x 104.99 ft (Bulges 108.27 ft) x (31.82 / 33.68 ft)
(248.93 m / 240.00 m) x 32.00 m (Bulges 33.00 m) x (9.70 / 10.27 m)

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm 50.0 cal guns - 1,951.09lbs / 885.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1937 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
24 - 4.53" / 115 mm 45.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 300 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1937 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 54.0 cal guns - 1.66lbs / 0.75kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model
8 x Quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts - superfiring
36 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 80.0 cal guns - 0.28lbs / 0.13kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model
6 x 2 row sextuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18,946 lbs / 8,594 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 452.76 ft / 138.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 88.58 ft / 27.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
246.06 ft / 75.00 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 2.76" / 70 mm 452.76 ft / 138.00 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 452.76 ft / 138.00 m 30.18 ft / 9.20 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 9.06" / 230 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.47" / 12 mm 0.47" / 12 mm -
4th: 0.47" / 12 mm 0.47" / 12 mm -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 4.96" / 126 mm For and Aft decks

- Conning towers: Forward 2.76" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 160,000 shp / 119,360 Kw = 31.37 kts
Range 7,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,286 tons

Complement:
1,513 - 1,967

Cost:
£20.252 million / $81.007 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,903 tons, 8.9 %
Armour: 12,849 tons, 29.3 %
- Belts: 4,320 tons, 9.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 796 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 3,073 tons, 7.0 %
- Armour Deck: 4,585 tons, 10.5 %
- Conning Tower: 74 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,435 tons, 10.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,011 tons, 36.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,299 tons, 14.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.7 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
65,176 lbs / 29,563 Kg = 38.6 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 9.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.565 / 0.573
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 39.37 ft / 12.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 25.16 ft / 7.67 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 182.0 %
Waterplane Area: 60,934 Square feet or 5,661 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs/sq ft or 1,017 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.43
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Deck
70mm forwards, 36+115 machinery, 36+135 magazines, 100mm box aft

Belt
70+280@15
60 splinter proofing forwards

Slightly downsized, less armour, speed increased, armed with 12x12" guns.

La Argentina (117J B), Argentinian Battlecruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
33,376 t light; 35,211 t standard; 39,164 t normal; 42,326 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
751.28 ft / 735.00 ft x 108.20 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
228.99 m / 224.03 m x 32.98 m x 9.45 m

Armament:
12 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x4 guns), 875.00lbs / 396.89kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
24 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (12x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11,880 lbs / 5,389 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 155

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.2" / 310 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 84 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.35" / 60 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.58" / 40 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Armour deck: 5.10" / 130 mm, Conning tower: 3.95" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 146,238 shp / 109,094 Kw = 31.04 kts
Range 8,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,115 tons

Complement:
1,391 - 1,809

Cost:
£16.077 million / $64.307 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,443 tons, 3.7 %
Armour: 12,608 tons, 32.2 %
- Belts: 3,083 tons, 7.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,043 tons, 2.7 %
- Armament: 2,900 tons, 7.4 %
- Armour Deck: 5,483 tons, 14.0 %
- Conning Tower: 98 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 4,053 tons, 10.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,022 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,788 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
65,641 lbs / 29,774 Kg = 76.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 10.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.556
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.79 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.50 ft / 1.98 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Mid (50 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Stern: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Average freeboard: 25.56 ft / 7.79 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 199.0 %
Waterplane Area: 58,115 Square feet or 5,399 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 188 lbs/sq ft or 920 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.60
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Slightly decrease in displacement, less armour, speed increased, AA increased, range increased.

Pampas II (117K B), Argentinian Battlecruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
38,906 t light; 41,222 t standard; 46,456 t normal; 50,643 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
781.87 ft / 765.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
238.31 m / 233.17 m x 32.92 m x 9.75 m

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
24 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (12x2 guns), 46.48lbs / 21.08kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 7 raised mounts
16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mount
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16,361 lbs / 7,421 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 395.00 ft / 120.40 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 79 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.35" / 60 mm 395.00 ft / 120.40 m 31.00 ft / 9.45 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.58" / 40 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.10" / 130 mm, Conning tower: 3.95" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 150,000 shp / 111,900 Kw = 30.30 kts
Range 9,500nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,421 tons

Complement:
1,581 - 2,056

Cost:
£19.973 million / $79.891 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,045 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 14,451 tons, 31.1 %
- Belts: 3,720 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,065 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 3,529 tons, 7.6 %
- Armour Deck: 6,028 tons, 13.0 %
- Conning Tower: 110 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,157 tons, 8.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,052 tons, 38.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,551 tons, 16.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
73,675 lbs / 33,418 Kg = 43.7 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 11.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 18.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.615
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.60 ft / 9.94 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Mid (50 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Stern: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Average freeboard: 25.61 ft / 7.81 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 192.4 %
Waterplane Area: 63,885 Square feet or 5,935 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 207 lbs/sq ft or 1,010 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.53
- Overall: 1.04
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform