WesWorld

The Kreigsmarine of the German Reich finds itself at a bit of a crossroads: what should it work on next?

The last 8 years have seen the rebuilding of the heavy core any navy needs, with 8 battleships under construction, 4 large cruisers either completed or under construction, and 2 aircraft carriers under construction, the KM thinks the majority of it's capital ship needs are under construction and will be in place in the coming years.

The U-boat arm has been resurrected from it's Versailles-enforced grave, with a total of 48 coastal U-boats built, under construction, or planned to complete by the end of 1937. The Type I U-boats are limited by their small size, but they could give good service within their range, and at the very least will serve admirably as training vessels if the U-boat arm acquires larger and more capable vessels.

The cruiser force is composed of 4 modern heavy cruisers, and 10 light cruisers. Most of the force is solid enough, though no new light cruisers have been laid down since 1929's Liepzig class. The two older Emdens have been refitted for further service, while the two Karlsruhe class ships are being sold to Turkey. The four cruisers of the Koln class will be needing refits by the turn of the decade, but should remain useful vessels.

The destroyer force is fairly strong, with 65 destroyers of various types, all built after the Great War, in the force. The oldest vessels, of the Z-201 type, have been undergoing refits which will complete by the end of 1937 to bring them up to the most modern standard.

The mine warfare arm will be composed of 30 minesweepers by the end of 1937, and refits have been scheduled for the older, larger R-1 class vessels built in the early 1920s. More vessels of the R-11 type or a similar class are expected to be built in the future.

ASW is an acknowledged weakness, until the alliance with Nordmark and Great Britain it was assumed that the German merchant fleet would, in the event of war, seek shelter in neutral ports and ride out the war there. The two escorts of the F-1 type were built mostly as vessels for the U-boats to train against, learning the best way to attack an escorted convoy. With the new alliance, though, some ASW escorts are being designed.

Light ships (MTBs) have been worked on as well, with 12 in service at the end of 1936.

Supporting ships: the KM has 6 Dithmarschen class fleet tankers in the fleet or on order by the end of 1937.

The question before the Admiralstab is: what next? The force, as planned, looks fairly well balanced, with a good number of light ships and heavy ships being added in the near future. Current plans include additional light ships (destroyers, minesweepers, escorts, etc), but is there an area on which the KM should concentrate? Thoughts, opinions?

What about amphibious warfare ? If i think right, Germany didn't have any ship for it ? Or do Germany think, there is no need for it ?
May be they think right ..... it depends on who is the enemy ?!

With the alliance with Great Britain, the KM really doesn't see a need for amphibious warfare ships. After all, the only two nations in Europe that are near Germany that aren't easily reached by land are Nordmark and Great Britain, both of which are allies. (OK, OK, there's Ireland, but ….. no.)

I would say fleet tankers, coastal warfare vessels, and potentially coastal bombardment vessels.

Fleet tankers I should add to the list, the KM has 6 Dithmarschen class in the fleet or on order by the end of 1937.

Coastal bombardment vessels.... a possibility I hadn't thought of. Hmmm.

My first thought: "Don't stab your admirals, you'll need them later!!"

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
(OK, OK, there's Ireland, but ….. no.)

You can build me some amphibious assault ships, if you like. ...I have no idea what I'd do with them, though.

Basically, I agree with Earl: tankers, repair ships, sub-tenders, destroyer tenders, all the ships we so easily ignore here in favor of the more glamorous ships. I've noted the Italians built a heavy repair ship, some sea-going tugs, etc.

I'd love to see Germany build a Scharnhorst and Gniesenau, even if they're just fast battleships to follow on the Bismarcks, or large cruisers to follow on the Derfflingers. (I first got into WWII naval war while reading a book about the exploits of the Ugly Sisters, so you might say they are ships close to my heart.)

I think you can add another ten light cruisers without presenting a serious imbalance to the fleet.

Auxiliaries I have designs for here: http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?threadid=4457&sid= but none of either type have been built YET. They're on the list of things to do, just a question of when.

A follow-on to the Derfflingers is a possibility, more BBs are (at this point) unlikely but possible.

More light cruisers seems like a likely thing to do, yes.

As long as you build an S&G, and they're FAST!

You've got to work out what you want the Navy to do first of all. It's always been the main problem - no clear mission as Germany is primarily a land power and the navy is an expensive toy tacked on the side.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
You've got to work out what you want the Navy to do first of all. It's always been the main problem - no clear mission as Germany is primarily a land power and the navy is an expensive toy tacked on the side.

Clearly they need to acquire overseas colonies.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
You've got to work out what you want the Navy to do first of all. It's always been the main problem - no clear mission as Germany is primarily a land power and the navy is an expensive toy tacked on the side.

Clearly they need to acquire overseas colonies.

Indeed, I'm in the middle of reading Massie's Dreadnaught which brings up that issue pretty well. Would the German public really be too enthused about rebuilding the Navy? It took a lot to get them behind the High Seas Fleet...which lead to the Great War. Would they really be getting behind plans to go down that same road again? The brunt of that issue would be focused around capital ships, which you've already said you're done with for now, but I would think amphibious ships or ocean-going bombardment ships would seem a bit too focused on going elsewhere to pick a fight rather than defending the homeland.

What about coastal defense ships? Riverine forces? Also, is there any infrastructure expansion you could be looking into to meet possible future needs?

Quoted

Clearly they need to acquire overseas colonies.

Canada would be a nice Colony for Germany.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10

Quoted

Clearly they need to acquire overseas colonies.

Canada would be a nice Colony for Germany.

I was thinkin' more... New Guinea.

I think Java and Sumatra also make sense for the Weimer Republic.

The easiest way to do that would be to legally turn the Netherlands into a German province.

Quoted

Canada would be a nice Colony for Germany.

Now theres an idea!

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
The easiest way to do that would be to legally turn the Netherlands into a German province.

Some time back, I did have an idea on this, I'll have to see if I can find it..... Ah, found it. Note, this was a PM I sent to Wes back when RAM was running the Dutch and went missing.

[JOKE]

April 15, 1930 - The Hague

- FLASH -
Explosions and the bark of gunfire have filled the streets of the Dutch capital today, for reasons not yet clear. The Dutch Army and Royal Marines have been called in to battle a force that has seized control of the Palace and the Parliament building.

- FLASH -


April 16, 1930 - The Hague

Street battles in the Dutch capital, along with Amsterdam and Rotterdam, have continued between radical Communists and the Dutch armed forces. The Dutch government, which was meeting at the time of the Communist attack, has been very quiet, with the only public statements coming from junior members or from the armed forces. All offers of foreign assistance have been refused with thanks.


April 17, 1930 - The Hague

- FLASH -
The Dutch Royal Marines have just retaken the Royal Palace, reports suggest that they have found the bodies of the Royal family.

- FLASH -


April 20, 1930 - The Hague

The Communist uprising in The Netherlands has been crushed, with the last holdouts in the Parliament building killed or captured this morning. A large portion of the Communists support seemed to melt away when word of the murder of the Royal family spread.


April 25, 1930 - The Hague

- FLASH -
A rump Parliament, meeting in Rotterdam as the Parliament building in The Hague is being examined to determine if it can be repaired, has submitted a bill for the Netherlands to join the German Reich. It passed with 60% of the votes.

- FLASH -

April 28, 1930 - Berlin

Chancellor Cuno, after discussions with the coalition and with President Braun, had this statement to make on the Dutch request to join the Reich: "We are flattered by the Dutch request, and, if the Dutch population agrees in a plediscite with their representatives, the Reich will be happy to expand to incorporate the Dutch in the Reich."


June 28, 1930 - Rotterdam

The results of the Dutch plebiscite are in: 56% of the voters are in favor of union with Germany, while 44% are opposed. 90% of the eligible voters cast ballots, meaning that the Aye vote polled approximately 50.4% of the eligible population.


And thus, to it's surprise (and horror, and pleasure), Germany finds itself back in the colony business.

[/JOKE]

Heh. The French and British probably would have gone ape, not to mention the Belgians...

Hrolf, I knew you were evil.