WesWorld

With the Anglo-Bharat Agreement ending in October 1940 is time to look into the future. The first will be a refit of the last battleship to increase the main battery to 380mm, increase the AA secondaries plus a new engine.

Thanks to Walter and Hrolf for the Sim.

Shah Jahan, Indian battleship laid down 1929 (Engine 1940)

Displacement:
26,822 t light; 28,185 t standard; 30,207 t normal; 31,825 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
695.88 ft / 679.13 ft x 99.74 ft x 28.38 ft (normal load)
212.10 m / 207.00 m x 30.40 m x 8.65 m

Armament:
6 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,674.25lbs / 759.43kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (4x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (8x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11,122 lbs / 5,045 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 400.26 ft / 122.00 m 11.98 ft / 3.65 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
0.98" / 25 mm 400.26 ft / 122.00 m 26.05 ft / 7.94 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 11.8" / 300 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.51" / 140 mm, Conning tower: 14.17" / 360 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 99,154 shp / 73,969 Kw = 27.94 kts
Range 14,200nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,640 tons

Complement:
1,145 - 1,489

Cost:
£9.929 million / $39.715 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,390 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 10,636 tons, 35.2 %
- Belts: 3,175 tons, 10.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 380 tons, 1.3 %
- Armament: 1,966 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 4,820 tons, 16.0 %
- Conning Tower: 296 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,683 tons, 8.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,862 tons, 39.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,385 tons, 11.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
48,950 lbs / 22,203 Kg = 29.2 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 7.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.81 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.87 ft / 8.80 m
- Forecastle (23 %): 23.46 ft / 7.15 m
- Mid (75 %): 23.46 ft / 7.15 m (15.58 ft / 4.75 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Stern: 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Average freeboard: 21.99 ft / 6.70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 177.1 %
Waterplane Area: 47,272 Square feet or 4,392 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 181 lbs/sq ft or 882 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


250 tons reserved for aircraft, radar, and growth

The main guns taken from the Shah Jahan could be used for a new fast battleship. If this ship is actually built depends of the situation at the time.

Thanks Walter for SIM.

Enter ship name, Indian Battleship laid down 1940

Displacement:
32,128 t light; 33,685 t standard; 35,960 t normal; 37,781 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
736.89 ft / 721.78 ft x 98.43 ft x 29.53 ft (normal load)
224.60 m / 220.00 m x 30.00 m x 9.00 m

Armament:
8 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,308.20lbs / 593.39kg shells, 1929 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8 mounts), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread
14 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (7x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
10 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,222 lbs / 5,544 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.2" / 360 mm 442.91 ft / 135.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 94% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 442.91 ft / 135.00 m 27.89 ft / 8.50 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 14.2" / 360 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
3rd: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 6.30" / 160 mm, Conning tower: 8.66" / 220 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100,000 shp / 74,600 Kw = 28.33 kts
Range 9,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,096 tons

Complement:
1,305 - 1,697

Cost:
£15.250 million / $60.999 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,528 tons, 4.2%
Armour: 14,300 tons, 39.8%
- Belts: 3,594 tons, 10.0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 900 tons, 2.5%
- Armament: 3,292 tons, 9.2%
- Armour Deck: 6,311 tons, 17.5%
- Conning Tower: 203 tons, 0.6%
Machinery: 2,772 tons, 7.7%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,129 tons, 36.5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,832 tons, 10.7%
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
60,875 lbs / 27,612 Kg = 46.5 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 10.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 17.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.48 ft / 9.90 m
- Forecastle (20%): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Mid (50%): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 22.22 ft / 6.77 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.6%
Waterplane Area: 54,153 Square feet or 5,031 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 178 lbs/sq ft or 870 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.30
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

The later ship seems a bit slow but maybe thats just me

I think the second design is fine, speed-wise.

While you're regunning ships for your post-treaty India, why don't you delay or regun the two Hyderabad-class ships to incorporate real big guns?

Quoted

Hyderabad, Indian Battlecruiser laid down 1938

Displacement:
17,942 t light; 18,711 t standard; 20,143 t normal; 21,289 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
731.97 ft / 715.22 ft x 72.83 ft x 24.61 ft (normal load)
223.10 m / 218.00 m x 22.20 m x 7.50 m

Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (4x2 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.81kg shells, 1938 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (6x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1938 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
20 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1938 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,102 lbs / 2,768 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 105

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.06" / 230 mm 403.12 ft / 122.87 m 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 9.06" / 230 mm
2nd: 1.38" / 35 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 126,015 shp / 94,007 Kw = 33.24 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,578 tons

Complement:
845 - 1,099

Cost:
£9.874 million / $39.495 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 763 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 5,250 tons, 26.1 %
- Belts: 1,638 tons, 8.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,363 tons, 6.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2,205 tons, 10.9 %
- Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,451 tons, 17.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,379 tons, 41.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,201 tons, 10.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
26,388 lbs / 11,969 Kg = 39.4 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.88
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.40 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.87 ft / 8.80 m
- Forecastle (35 %): 23.46 ft / 7.15 m
- Mid (75 %): 23.46 ft / 7.15 m (15.58 ft / 4.75 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Stern: 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Average freeboard: 22.25 ft / 6.78 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186.7 %
Waterplane Area: 37,849 Square feet or 3,516 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 715 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

I wasn't able to make an exact sim of the original 16x8" version, but I presume you can do it better, having the original SS file. Since the Delhis were supposed to have 28cm guns, and the new Philippino BC has 28cm guns brought in from India, and what appears to be a two-to-one ratio to switch them out, it should be a logical upgrade. Unless the Hyderabads are another bait-and-switch design like the Satyaki-class "predreadnoughts"-into-Daakuui.

This one was too easy for you guys. Indeed the ships (Hyderabad and her sister) are expected to be completed after October 1940, the date the treaty with the British end. And indeed they will be very similar to what Brock painted. Of course they will not be started until 1938 so everything so far is just academic.

Woo!

In fairness, Perdedor, you're too good of a simmer to hide stuff like this. All of the designs you've built to date have been well-balanced and reasonable, and so when you revealed the 16x8" Hyderabad, it was just too much of an oddball not to be another Satyaki ploy. My choice of guns came from the commentary in the Delhi entry in the encyclopedia and the switch worked too well in my mind for it to be a coincidence.

The Satyaki ploy had me completely fooled, though.

((FWIW, I spend a lot of time entering other folks' more interesting ships into SS so that I can try to identify their design patterns, and seeing what I can make "better". I've spent most of my time going through ships designed by Perdedor, Alt-Naval, and AdmK since I like many of their cruiser and battleship designs.))

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Woo!

In fairness, Perdedor, you're too good of a simmer to hide stuff like this. All of the designs you've built to date have been well-balanced and reasonable, and so when you revealed the 16x8" Hyderabad, it was just too much of an oddball not to be another Satyaki ploy. My choice of guns came from the commentary in the Delhi entry in the encyclopedia and the switch worked too well in my mind for it to be a coincidence.

The Satyaki ploy had me completely fooled, though.

((FWIW, I spend a lot of time entering other folks' more interesting ships into SS so that I can try to identify their design patterns, and seeing what I can make "better". I've spent most of my time going through ships designed by Perdedor, Alt-Naval, and AdmK since I like many of their cruiser and battleship designs.))

Giving me too much credit. The Satyaki was basically me, but with a lot of help from Hrolf, Walter and the Rock Doctor. The Hyderabads are basically a copy of the Radiance (done by Walter). The Delhis are mine, with guidance from Walter and the Rock Doctor.

Basically I think something and them I run it thru my Senseis; Walter, the Old Guru the Doctor and Hrolf. They deserve as much credit if not more than me.

Well, whatever system you've found, it actually appears to have worked out well. I rather admire the Delhis in particular - very well-armoured for their size. My new ACR Constitution runs only slightly smaller and has less armor - though I spent a great deal of effort to make them above-average seaboats.

Basically Bharat's Naval Projects all the way to 1939 are already posted in the encyclopedia.

Thanks to Hrolf, Walter, Brock, the Doctor and Ho for their help with the SIMs. I'm currently using a government laptop so I can't install the SIM program on it. It was buying a cheap laptop or an used Jaguar (2007) and I went with option B. Will not buy a laptop until I return from one active duty in March; I will double dip so it will be sweet for me.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
((FWIW, I spend a lot of time entering other folks' more interesting ships into SS so that I can try to identify their design patterns, and seeing what I can make "better". I've spent most of my time going through ships designed by Perdedor, Alt-Naval, and AdmK since I like many of their cruiser and battleship designs.))

That´s interesting. Should you ever run an analysis of my designs let me know what you found out. Thanks.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
((FWIW, I spend a lot of time entering other folks' more interesting ships into SS so that I can try to identify their design patterns, and seeing what I can make "better". I've spent most of my time going through ships designed by Perdedor, Alt-Naval, and AdmK since I like many of their cruiser and battleship designs.))

That´s interesting. Should you ever run an analysis of my designs let me know what you found out. Thanks.

I did at one point when I first started. I will say that the Arions have singlehandedly influenced my light cruiser doctrine going forward. Like I said in my Bulgarian story piece:

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
"In terms of usefulness, another pair of light cruisers, smaller than the Danubes and faster, might prove to be advantageous. As we saw during the South American War, the South African 'Pony Express' caused significant havoc due to the combination of a good propaganda machine and their ships' relative inability to be overtaken in force by the Argentines."

That's going to heavily influence Chilean CL design of the future. A bit of Bulgarian design, too, but not so much as Chilean design. Not only design, but the reporting of their operations: the SAE's propaganda machine and (most likely) the Argentinian rumor mill probably played up their successful operations, causing Argentina to risk ships to stop them at all cost. I'm all about forcing the enemy to react to you rather than you reacting to the enemy.

The Arions have influenced the Chilean designers enough that half of my light cruiser designs are named "Haca Rapido type" (Pony Express). I'm basically planning two different CL types: a well-armoured, 12x6" or 15x6" fleet cruiser on around 10k tons, and a smaller 6x6" or 8x6" (or even 5.1") high-speed ocean scout on 7k tons.

The other thing I've paid close attention to were the RSAN's Ringhorn-class, and their Siamese cousin. When TC and I wrote the Naval Treaty of Constantinople, I added the 'no coast defense ships above 2,000 tons light' clause specifically to limit it to Ringhorn-sized derivatives. I will perhaps get around to filling those tonnage limits once I have an eight-ship DD flotilla completed. Additionally, I have Azerbaijan's sights set firmly on ordering something in this class (dubbed "The Caspian Sea Monsters"), once Russia finishes raising the bridges on the Volga, Don, and the connecting canal. (Of course, this could be the Azeris' way of poking back at that Persian lion that keeps growling ominously...) The rest of the SAE's CDS vessels haven't escaped my notice, either.