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Quoted
LÉ Saint Patrick, Irish ASW Escort laid down 1938
Displacement:
1,314 t light; 1,369 t standard; 1,600 t normal; 1,786 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
368.37 ft / 360.00 ft x 34.50 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
112.28 m / 109.73 m x 10.52 m x 3.35 m
Armament:
6 - 3.70" / 94.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 25.33lbs / 11.49kg shells, 1938 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
3 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 159 lbs / 72 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning tower: 1.18" / 30 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 27,113 shp / 20,226 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 6,200nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 417 tons
Complement:
126 - 164
Cost:
£0.915 million / $3.661 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 20 tons, 1.2 %
Armour: 17 tons, 1.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 14 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 709 tons, 44.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 516 tons, 32.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 286 tons, 17.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 52 tons, 3.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
685 lbs / 311 Kg = 27.1 x 3.7 " / 94 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.410
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.43 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 15.82 ft / 4.82 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 156.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.6 %
Waterplane Area: 7,983 Square feet or 742 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 162 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.14
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Quoted
Originally posted by howard
No depth charges, and no torpedo tubes.
H.
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Originally posted by Earl822
As far as the design goes, I'd question the use of the 3.7inch gun over the more reliable 4inch.
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Originally posted by Vukovlad
So these will operate together with the RN?
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Originally posted by Brockpaine
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Originally posted by howard
No depth charges, and no torpedo tubes.
H.
What's the point of an ASW escort if it has no ASW weapons, and what's it to do if an enemy destroyer shows up? What are you suggesting I replace them with, if you want them removed?
.Quoted
Quoted
Originally posted by Earl822
As far as the design goes, I'd question the use of the 3.7inch gun over the more reliable 4inch.
Rationale for that... the first Irish warships, the Deirdres, received 3.7" DPs via Britain (I think). Another two Deirdres will be built in 1937 with the 3.7", and several secondhand DDs will be refitted with 3.7". Basically I used it for caliber standardization purposes
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I did design a version of the Saints armed with three 5.1" DP singles, but at the moment I'm preferring the 3.7" DP twins as it gives me more guns with a better ROF. I expect the 3.7"s are better AA weapons in any case.
This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "howard" (Oct 15th 2008, 7:56pm)
This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "howard" (Oct 15th 2008, 10:36pm)
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You usually expect to see about twelve to sixteen patterns from a destroyer.
This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Oct 15th 2008, 10:47pm)
Quoted
Originally posted by Rooijen10
Quoted
You usually expect to see about twelve to sixteen patterns from a destroyer.
Just curious. This is based on what?
Looking at various destroyers I see values between roughly 20 and 100 but haven't encountered anything higher than that. Now it should be noted that I did not look at all DDs and that some DDs don't have DC numbers but still 100 DCs is less than 40% of what Brock calculated that you say is "usual".
... so 100 DCs at ~ 200 kg per DC gives you ~19.7 tons...
... so yes, 52 tons will cover the DCs + rails and/or throwers and probably the TTs and Torpedoes as well.
This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "howard" (Oct 16th 2008, 12:49am)
Quoted
Originally posted by Red Admiral
You're probably better off with something like a Black Swan Sloop with reciprocating engines (they're more efficient at low speed, cheap and easy for Ireland to manufacture)
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Contae Thiobraid Arann (County Tipperary), Irish ASW Sloop laid down 1940
Displacement:
861 t light; 894 t standard; 1,003 t normal; 1,090 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
230.00 ft / 230.00 ft x 36.50 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
70.10 m / 70.10 m x 11.13 m x 3.35 m
Armament:
3 - 3.70" / 94.0 mm guns in single mounts, 25.33lbs / 11.49kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 86 lbs / 39 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Conning tower: 0.59" / 15 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 8,553 shp / 6,381 Kw = 23.35 kts
Range 5,000nm at 13.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 196 tons
Complement:
88 - 115
Cost:
£0.427 million / $1.708 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 11 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 6 tons, 0.6 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 5 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 229 tons, 22.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 535 tons, 53.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 142 tons, 14.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 8.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,179 lbs / 988 Kg = 86.0 x 3.7 " / 94 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.380
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.30 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m before break)
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 18.27 ft / 5.57 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 210.5 %
Waterplane Area: 5,119 Square feet or 476 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 159 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 48 lbs/sq ft or 232 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.76
- Longitudinal: 12.62
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Breakdown of Weights
50 tons for Depth Charges
15 tons for Hydrophones
15 tons for growth
Quoted
Contae Thiobraid Arann (County Tipperary), Irish Destroyer Escort laid down 1940
Displacement:
907 t light; 951 t standard; 1,065 t normal; 1,156 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
230.00 ft / 230.00 ft x 36.50 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
70.10 m / 70.10 m x 11.13 m x 3.35 m
Armament:
6 - 3.70" / 94.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 25.33lbs / 11.49kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 162 lbs / 73 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Conning tower: 0.59" / 15 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 9,036 shp / 6,741 Kw = 23.35 kts
Range 5,000nm at 13.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 204 tons
Complement:
93 - 121
Cost:
£0.495 million / $1.981 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 20 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 9 tons, 0.9 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 8 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 242 tons, 22.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 556 tons, 52.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 158 tons, 14.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 7.5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,109 lbs / 957 Kg = 83.3 x 3.7 " / 94 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.404
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.30 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m before break)
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 18.27 ft / 5.57 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 201.5 %
Waterplane Area: 5,179 Square feet or 481 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 145 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 49 lbs/sq ft or 238 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.75
- Longitudinal: 12.31
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
50 tons for Depth Charges
15 tons for Hydrophones
15 tons for growth
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