WesWorld

Brazil, once the war is over will be concentrating on repairing its damaged ships, so any new ships being constructed will have to be smaller ships

Therefore, Brazil is planning on building submarines for the upcoming year. The submarines Brazil is currently considering is the design given below, as well Brazil will be using the Chilean minesweeper design to build minesweepers.

Brazil also has another destroyer design in the works, basically a Margay with DP guns. The lack of guns that shoot up was felt quite severly in the SA War.

A Class, Brazil Coastal Submarine laid down 1936

Displacement:
338 t light; 345 t standard; 354 t normal; 361 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
150.00 ft / 150.00 ft x 15.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
45.72 m / 45.72 m x 4.57 m x 3.05 m
8 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion engines plus batteries,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 1 shaft, 389 shp / 290 Kw = 12.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 5.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 16 tons

Complement:
39 - 52

Cost:
£0.070 million / $0.282 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 11 tons, 3.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 268 tons, 75.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 16 tons, 4.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 59 tons, 16.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
-181 lbs / -82 Kg = -1.7 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or NaN torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 10.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50

Operational diving depth 337 feet (101 meters)
Emergency diving depth 539 feet (161 meters)
Crush depth 842 feet (252 meters)

Hmmmm. No guns at all? Probably not the best choice at this time, when you'll be spending more than 50% of the time at sea on the surface....

Surfaced speed is very low, you'll be hard pressed to maneuver into position against anything other than a slow freighter.

Also, why 18" tubes, vs the 21" tubes used on the preceding Turabaos?

Lastly, I'd go with twin screws vs a single, allows for superior low speed maneuverability and a degree of redundancy..

Okay, how about this?

A Class, Brazil Coastal Submarine laid down 1936

Displacement:
337 t light; 345 t standard; 354 t normal; 361 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
150.00 ft / 150.00 ft x 15.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
45.72 m / 45.72 m x 4.57 m x 3.05 m

Armament:
1 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline aft
2 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft
Weight of broadside 14 lbs / 7 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion engines plus batteries,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 2,998 shp / 2,237 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 5.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 16 tons

Complement:
39 - 52

Cost:
£0.132 million / $0.529 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 84 tons, 23.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 192 tons, 54.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 17 tons, 4.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 59 tons, 16.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11 lbs / 5 Kg = 0.8 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Stern: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 393.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0.0 %
Waterplane Area: 1,570 Square feet or 146 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 146 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 80 lbs/sq ft or 391 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 3.55
- Longitudinal: 2.01
- Overall: 2.32
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Looks better from here. Now, how are the tubes laid out, and how many reloads are being carried?

Now we are entering an area where my lack of knowledge will be shown.

I would think they would have 2 at the bow, and 2 at the stern. As to how many are carried, I was thinking somewhere around 8 to 12?

Historically, the somewhat smaller German Type II u-boats had 3 tubes (all forward), and a total of 5 torpedoes. Keep in mind that a 21" torpedo weighs around 1.5 tons, so it will cut into your miscellaneous weight (which is also your ballast tanks for diving). So I'd suggest no more than 8-10 torpedoes, and probably a 3 forward, 1 aft layout.

Sounds good to me. I usually round up to 2 tons per torpedo myself.

Seeing as there seems to be much discussion on Battleships lately, I figured I would release this design to give an idea as to the kind of capital ship I am thinking of building for Brazil.

Riachuelo, Brazil Battleship laid down 1937

Displacement:
35,647 t light; 37,986 t standard; 46,646 t normal; 53,573 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
733.94 ft / 720.00 ft x 108.14 ft x 34.15 ft (normal load)
223.71 m / 219.46 m x 32.96 m x 10.41 m

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
18 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x3 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (12x2 guns), 14.00lbs / 6.35kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 8 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.32lbs / 0.60kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 16,538 lbs / 7,501 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 379.63 ft / 115.71 m 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 81 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.00" / 102 mm 379.63 ft / 115.71 m 24.54 ft / 7.48 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -

- Armour deck: 5.25" / 133 mm, Conning tower: 17.00" / 432 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 113,557 shp / 84,714 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 29,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 15,587 tons

Complement:
1,586 - 2,063

Cost:
£18.649 million / $74.594 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,060 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 14,681 tons, 31.5 %
- Belts: 3,671 tons, 7.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,379 tons, 3.0 %
- Armament: 3,553 tons, 7.6 %
- Armour Deck: 5,604 tons, 12.0 %
- Conning Tower: 475 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 3,147 tons, 6.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,609 tons, 33.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 10,999 tons, 23.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
75,872 lbs / 34,415 Kg = 45.0 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 13.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 7.6 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.614
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.66 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.83 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.40 ft / 1.34 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.22 ft / 9.52 m
- Forecastle (21 %): 20.83 ft / 6.35 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (22 %): 20.83 ft / 6.35 m
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 21.52 ft / 6.56 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.5 %
Waterplane Area: 57,694 Square feet or 5,360 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 957 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.41
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
Range 30,500nm at 15.00 kts

HOLY MOSES, BATMAN!

Revised the design so it can be laid down in 1937. Now it is 29500 @ 15 knots, is that not enough?

Peru will become a concern for Brazil in the future, seeing as they have 4 fairly modern capital ships, so this ship is designed to operate in the Pacific. The fact that boosting the endurance boosts seakeeping is my "cheat."

Okaya-then!

Several comments...

Ditch the triple DP. Add more turrets as twins. I'd take an inch off the torpedo bulkhead and add some more deck armor - see if you can't get it up to six inches, perhaps. I'd also add a tad more miscellaneous weight - I'm starting to add between 200t to 350t as miscellaneous weight.

Played with it a bit, as suggested, it dropped the endurance a bit, but its still impressive. Question, does anyone think that the 4.7in is a bit light as a secondary? I do have a sim of this with 6in, but it drops endurance even more.

Riachuelo, Brazil Battleship laid down 1937

Displacement:
36,361 t light; 38,700 t standard; 46,646 t normal; 53,002 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
733.94 ft / 720.00 ft x 108.14 ft x 34.15 ft (normal load)
223.71 m / 219.46 m x 32.96 m x 10.41 m

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
18 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (9x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (12x2 guns), 14.00lbs / 6.35kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
16 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.32lbs / 0.60kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 16,538 lbs / 7,501 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 379.63 ft / 115.71 m 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 81 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.00" / 76 mm 379.63 ft / 115.71 m 24.54 ft / 7.48 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -

- Armour deck: 6.00" / 152 mm, Conning tower: 17.00" / 432 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 113,557 shp / 84,714 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 27,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 14,301 tons

Complement:
1,586 - 2,063

Cost:
£18.785 million / $75.139 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,060 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 15,254 tons, 32.7 %
- Belts: 3,671 tons, 7.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,034 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 3,670 tons, 7.9 %
- Armour Deck: 6,404 tons, 13.7 %
- Conning Tower: 475 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 3,147 tons, 6.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,599 tons, 33.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 10,285 tons, 22.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
74,802 lbs / 33,929 Kg = 44.3 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 12.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 7.3 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.614
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.66 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.83 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.40 ft / 1.34 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.22 ft / 9.52 m
- Forecastle (21 %): 20.83 ft / 6.35 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (22 %): 20.83 ft / 6.35 m
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 21.52 ft / 6.56 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.5 %
Waterplane Area: 57,694 Square feet or 5,360 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 957 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.41
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

I definitely like that version more. I think the 120mm gun is just fine for a secondary gun even on a battleship - 6" guns would be, at best, a bit clumsy. Chile played with several secondary ideas on the Capitan Prat design study, and I myself finally decided on 130mm DP secondaries.

This "18 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (9x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 3 raised mounts - superfiring" should probably be changed so that you have an equal amount of mounts on each side

There'd be a superfiring mount aft, I expect. One of the good advantages in SS3: you can switch those bits up.

I have to agree, the range is waaaaay too excessive. American battleships needed the range in the Pacific, 15,000 @15 kts is quite impressive, 27,000@15 is overkill.

Hmm, okay I will see where I can put that tonnage.

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
Hmm, okay I will see where I can put that tonnage.

Turret armour would be a good place.

The only ships I've seen with a range that high... the British Incomparables, which I think were supposed to be able to sail around the world, fight, and return. *Shudder* Tin-clads...