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howard

Unregistered

61

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 8:07pm

Report from the Lima University School of Mining and Geology to the LoN Commission on the Bolivian Earthquake.

Quoted


Summary:
Regarding the differences in traveling surface quakes and deep core earthquakes, the damage mechanisms involved, which affect the size area involved.

The reason so much of southern Bolivia was involved in the Aiquila quake is that the affected surface of the Earth, that area east and west roughly between the towns of Aiquila to the east and just west of Cochinbambas slid sideways as if two massive plates of glass had ground past each other and cracked and chipped their edges. This accounts for the rather remarkable checkerboard nature of the damage as seen in the aerial photos recently released by the FAdC..

Where the edges of the "plates" chipped from the lateral displacement is where sheer forces caused the most destruction. Ground measurements indicate that the displacement in some places was east west lateral to a measurement of almost twenty meters!

This was a shallow subduction quake-a rare type we've not seen before in this detail in South America. The nearest equivalent in area damage we've found in history is the 1556 Shaanxi Quake with which we have discussed with our Chinese colleagues from the Beijing Geology Institute in great detail as we compare these events.

http://www.chinaonline.cn.com/chinese_cu…earthquake.html

As to the wild exaggerations we've seen in the press comparing this event with such disasters as the Great Lisbon Quake, we note the great physical differences in the killing and damaging mechanisms. In the case of the Aiquila Quake the damage mechanism is sudden ground displacement and shaking associated with the Earth's surface moving sideways violently-the earthquake, itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_ts…bon.2C_Portugal

In thre case of the Indian and Pacific Ocean Earthquakes that the press has used for wild comparison, the mechanism was Tsunami the wave thrown up by a deep core earthquake that occurs either along a shoreline or under the ocean floor.

etc.


__________________________________

Summary of disaster results 40+days

1. More than 17,000 dead confirmed so far. Numbers expected to increase.
2. More than 190,000 are homeless without shelter, food or water. These numbers are expected to increase.
3. The town of Aiquile, population 10,700 is 100% destroyed, and abandoned. EdP occupied.
4. The town of Cochinbambas, population 23,700 is 70% destroyed, and abandoned. EdP occupied.
5. The Town of Sucre, population 39,000 is undamaged. It is under Chilean Ministry of the Interior de facto administration and martial law. Bandit activity is declining. Esercito de Peru units were committed along with Gardia Civil police to restore order.
5. La Paz, population 215,000 as of now, with more refugees flooding in is undamaged. With the collapse of local government, Peruvian Gardia Civil units have established a police presence and local governance is by means of "Bolivian people's communes" with Peruvian civil affairs officials acting as advisers and liaisons between the communes and the current Peruvian relief effort. The Peruvian State of Puno administers the region under a Bolivian People's Provisional Council's state of emergency decree establishing a cordon sanitaire.
6. Cholera and dysentery have claimed 5000+ lives to date, mostly children as LoN combat troops continue to clog up the logistics lines of supply needed for construction equipment, food and medicine.
7. The railroad reconstruction effort is 27% complete. The shortage of of railroad construction crews has led to the extraordinary Peruvian expedient of organizing convicted criminals in Peru's prisons into railroad work gangs, and offering prisoners pardons and commutations of sentence, based on the risks they are willing to take and the effort they exert to restore Bolivian railroads. Under the "Mileage for Years" program-sentences are reduced per the amount of track each work gang lays. The program is extraordinarily successful as costly. More than 350 convicted murderers and thieves gave their lives to date in the effort.
8. The Lake Titicaca to La Paz aqueduct continues (14% complere). This project again uses the "Freedom" program with condemned prisoners as labor gangs. This project is unusual, as it is here where most of the combat troops which the LoN (Japanese specifically) sent, are being used to guard the work crews. Lack of machinery, means manpower intensive methods with corresponding high loss of life (1000+ dead so far). This is where Bolivian banditos captured by the EdP and GCdP wind up after conviction by Bolivian Peoples' Commune Courts.
9. A similar project called "Skybridge" is 40% complete. In this case the IJABDR under Task Group West command supervises more forced labor gangs as they construct the Huarina Flying Boat Marine de Guerre de Peru Naval Airbase as a receiving point for aerial supplies for the La Paz Medical Exclusion Zone.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "howard" (Sep 19th 2008, 10:35pm)


62

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 8:29pm

Quoted

Walter, we are talking an earthquake in Bolivia, which isn't an island nation so I really don't know why your showing all those Tsunami pictures....

Simple. Check your own post. You were talking about earthquakes in general when saying "Knowing Earthquakes are very localized disasters". Earthquakes... Disasters... obviously plural and obviously referring to earthquakes in general... You were clearly not talking about the Bolivian earthquake at that point. So it is only natural that my reply to that bit is about earthquakes in general as well.
... and the Tsunami was the main killing weapon of the eathquake so like I said it was not a "localized disaster". And even if we only look at the direct effects of the Earthquake (i.e. the violent ground movement) the other two points I indicated show that an Earthquake, unlike what you said, does not necessarily have to be a "localized disaster".

Quoted

So I say again, don't you think it would have been wise to open a discussion involving a confermation on a timelimit? Don't you think there would be a persistant attempt to define a timelimit?

I deliberately avoided these two questions because at the moment I cannot come up with proper answers without ending up with a lot of Bravo Sierra in them (the more I type, the more rubbish the answers become).

What's your excuse?

63

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 8:29pm

OOC; Let's get down to brass tacks here. Walter, there appears to be a general consensus that the armed Japanese troops have overstayed their welcome, and a similar consensus that they should have already left, or be leaving now. Will they be staying or leaving?

64

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 8:43pm

Depends on people other than me.

If the end of the mission was determined to be December 31, 1935, then they are no longer there (and I would have to edit the list I made).
If the end of the mission was determined to be December 31, 1936 or later, then they are still there, unless Peru believed that the Japanese presence was no longer needed in which case they are no longer there (and I would have to edit the list I made)... or was made to believe by the Evil Atlanteans and Evil Canadians that the Japanese presence was no longer needed. :)

Newswise I am lagging behind (nothing new there) and the last bit I have on Bolivia is Early October (... kind of) so it should have no effect on the news...

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Sep 18th 2008, 8:44pm)


65

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 8:46pm

Had I realized this issue was extant when I started in Chile, I would have pushed for a resolution immediately before it became a problem. As it was, everyone started out confused and started rattling sabers in an over-hasty manner.

However, the victors of the Bolivian War now have that timeline agreed upon: LoN troops in Bolivia will be leaving in Q4/36, unless invited to stay for earthquake relief by the Bolivian government.

If Japan refuses to leave at that time, then Chile will presume Bolivia and Japan are at war, and will request that the LoN eject Japan from the LoN for turning a peacekeeping mission into a foreign occupation and conquest. However, until that day comes, Chile will withhold its official comments in the PRESUMPTION that Japan is merely aiding the LoN and not acting on its own agenda.

Is this an acceptable solution for EVERYONE involved?

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Brockpaine" (Sep 18th 2008, 8:51pm)


howard

Unregistered

66

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 9:01pm

OOC.
As of now.........
I am simply appropriating every Japanese combat soldier I find anywhere in Bolivia and Peru and doing the Bridge on the River Kwai Bit with them by turning them all into forced labor battalion guards to stand watch over condemned prisoners who are rebuilding Bolivian and supplementing Peruvian infrastructure during this crisis. Whatever the rest of you decide is fine by me, but as far as I am concerned, a hard pressed Peru with 10,000 Japanese soldiers on its hands has to find some viable use for them for the corn they eat.

If Japan wants to keep sending forced labor battalion guards, I'll find enough condemned banditos and work projects to keep them ALL busy. The La Paz Regional Airport expansion is next on my list of forced labor gang projects.

H.

67

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 9:10pm

Quoted

Originally posted by howard
OOC.
As of now.........
I am simply appropriating every Japanese combat soldier I find anywhere in Bolivia and Peru and doing the Bridge on the River Kwai Bit with them by turning them all into forced labor battalion guards to stand watch over condemned prisoners who are rebuilding Bolivian and supplementing Peruvian infrastructure during this crisis. Whatever the rest of you decide is fine by me, but as far as I am concerned, a hard pressed Peru with 10,000 Japanese soldiers on its hands has to find some viable use for them for the corn they eat.

If Japan wants to keep sending forced labor battalion guards, I'll find enough condemned banditos and work projects to keep them ALL busy. The La Paz Regional Airport expansion is next on my list of forced labor gang projects.

H.

OOC: Are you similarly "appropriating" the US Marines, British Burmese troops, and the Canadian mounties, too? This is dangerous turf for everyone involved, IMHO.

howard

Unregistered

68

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 9:42pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by howard
OOC.
As of now.........
I am simply appropriating every Japanese combat soldier I find anywhere in Bolivia and Peru and doing the Bridge on the River Kwai Bit with them by turning them all into forced labor battalion guards to stand watch over condemned prisoners who are rebuilding Bolivian and supplementing Peruvian infrastructure during this crisis. Whatever the rest of you decide is fine by me, but as far as I am concerned, a hard pressed Peru with 10,000 Japanese soldiers on its hands has to find some viable use for them for the corn they eat.

If Japan wants to keep sending forced labor battalion guards, I'll find enough condemned banditos and work projects to keep them ALL busy. The La Paz Regional Airport expansion is next on my list of forced labor gang projects.

H.

OOC: Are you similarly "appropriating" the US Marines, British Burmese troops, and the Canadian mounties, too? This is dangerous turf for everyone involved, IMHO.


OOC.

I don't see 10,000 US Marines with armored trains, close air support, etc. wandering around loose without a clearly defined mission. What I am saying, is that if these USMC troops are in country(probably in battalion strength), they are supplying LoN local security in their assigned Mandate areas and setting up a mission defined observer presence to keep the peace. An armored train, on the other hand ......



http://uk.geocities.com/sadakichi09/army/IJ-MRAT.htm

is something troops use to conquer and hold ground as an occupier and invader.

THIS is what we are discussing now. This is why the EdP is careful to let the Gardia Civil (police) do most of the bandito chasing and is mostly concerned with infrastructure construction and relief efforts. Even in the case of Sucre, its mostly EdP gendarmes and Gardia Civil units. No artillery, no aircraft, no tanks, nothing to provoke outrage thus far with Peru's neighbors.

With that in mind, what do you think Hernando Diaz is going to do with 10,000 heavily armed Japanese on his hands and a nervous Chile next door? Turn them loose?

H.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "howard" (Sep 18th 2008, 10:01pm)


69

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 10:01pm

As I recall, the Japanese were incorporated into that LoN Mandate force...

howard

Unregistered

70

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 10:08pm

ALL 10,000 of them?

Remind me again what is unloading at Callao?

Quoted


Having received a message regarding the availability of goods, coming from Japan in various ships will be:
a) 10 doctors and 47 corpsmen (no bonus points for guessing why I chose 47 of them).
c) 2000 tons of food.
d) Six D51-A 2-8-2 steam locomotives (Army model; the only standard gauge D51 locomotives Japan has), two AD4 C-C diesel locomotives (standard gauge). 40 flat cars, 14 tanker cars, 56 box cars. 41 hopper cars (all standard gauge), track material enough for 300 kilometers of standard gauge railroad track and a crew to lay the track.
e) Two well drilling teams with equipment.
f) 400 eight man tents, 200 fifteen man tents.

Additional:
- 2,000 fieldbeds
- 10,000 blankets
- medical supplies
- two Selkirk 2-10-4 steam locomotives and 27 wagons (armoured train, standard gauge) for bandit suppression.
- One Chousensha 4-6-6-4 steam locomotive and 14 wagons (troop train, standard gauge) for bandit suppression.
- Japan's Special Operations Brigade.
- A 'few' planes for transport as well as bandit suppression.


That is in addition to the Japanese forces under the current LoN mandate in Bolivia already in country.

H.

71

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 10:10pm

Are you certain that's not the force already in Bolivia? :/

howard

Unregistered

72

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 10:28pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Are you certain that's not the force already in Bolivia? :/


Now that is the problem isn't it? As I read it, it is what Rootjen is sending [has sent] as of the on-break of this crisis packed on his ships.....


Quoted

Having received a message regarding the availability of goods, coming from Japan in various ships will be:


That is quite clear enough: not in country yet-being sent into country.

H.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "howard" (Sep 18th 2008, 10:29pm)


73

Thursday, September 18th 2008, 10:34pm

Quoted


Ah, yes, I recently ran across this site as well. Much more useful than the previous pages I used for the Japanese Armored trains. :)
I also ran across a Japanese site with a few more pictures than that one...

Type 94 Armored Train...
http://blinda.ld.infoseek.co.jp/vkg_214b.html

Temporary Armored Train...
http://blinda.ld.infoseek.co.jp/vkg_214a.html

Armored Train
http://blinda.ld.infoseek.co.jp/vkg_214c.html

Quoted

is something troops use to conquer and hold ground as an occupier and invader.

... only if there is a railroad in the area. :)
For some reason that picture you posted looks much more like an offensive weapon than the pictures of the Japanese armored trains...

Quoted

That is in addition to the Japanese forces under the current LoN mandate in Bolivia already in country.

So... Japan is sending its Special Operations Brigade to Bolivia to join up with Japan's Special Operations Brigade in Bolivia eventhough Japan only has one Special Operations Brigade...
... yes maybe I should correct that post... My fault. Sorry.

The Special Operations Brigade is only about 3600 strong (the boats and their crews that are attached to the Tenshi Rentai are still in Japan). Add the crews of the trains (3x2), the close air support (one certain colonel who uses the initials O.M.) and you're not even at 3700.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Sep 18th 2008, 10:36pm)


75

Friday, September 19th 2008, 1:32am

OOC: This is getting ridiculous

howard

Unregistered

76

Friday, September 19th 2008, 2:24am

OOC.

No sense of humor?

H.

77

Friday, September 19th 2008, 2:24am

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
OOC: This is getting ridiculous

Yes. Yes, it is.

howard

Unregistered

78

Friday, September 19th 2008, 2:31am

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
OOC: This is getting ridiculous

Yes. Yes, it is.

OOC.
Well we firmly established that there is confusion on the Japanese side as to what they have in Peru. So there is a method in the madness.

We established that they now tacitly agree to limit troop presence absolutely to no more than 3700 troops.

Now all we have to agree to do is operate them in Mandate Area One and set the pullout for the BERM Mandate as April 1937 and we can put this entire discussion to bed.

Simple.

Its not ridiculous.

Persia has still not responded to Peru's gesture........

Waiting.

H.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "howard" (Sep 19th 2008, 2:33am)


79

Friday, September 19th 2008, 2:44am

Earthquake aside, there have been no reports of violence or civil unrest in Bolivia since the conclusion of the 1934 conflict, and as such Canada does not see a need to prolong the presense of foreign troops in the region, and proposes a withdrawal be initiated immediately, and concluded by the end of October.

80

Friday, September 19th 2008, 3:17am

Quoted

Originally posted by howard

Persia has still not responded to Peru's gesture........

Waiting.

H.


I must have missed it, could you PM or repost it?