WesWorld

Avoca, Iberia CL laid down 1922

Displacement:
7,813 t light; 8,094 t standard; 9,317 t normal; 10,258 t full load
Loading submergence 605 tons/feet

Dimensions:
590.55 ft x 59.06 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
180.00 m x 18.00 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
10 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (3 Main turrets, 1 superfiring turret)
Superfiring turret is aft
12 - 2.24" / 57 mm AA guns
24 - 0.53" / 14 mm guns
Weight of broadside 1,141 lbs / 518 kg
16 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Belt 2.76" / 70 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 114 % of normal area
Main turrets 2.76" / 70 mm, AA gun shields 1.18" / 30 mm
Armour deck 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 85,162 shp / 63,531 Kw = 32.50 kts
Range 9,000nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
474 - 616

Cost:
£2.176 million / $8.702 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 143 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 1,212 tons, 13.0 %
Belts: 456 tons, 4.9 %, Armament: 248 tons, 2.7 %, Armour Deck: 463 tons, 5.0 %
Conning Tower: 45 tons, 0.5 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,889 tons, 31.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,495 tons, 37.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,504 tons, 16.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.8 %

Metacentric height 3.0

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.15
Shellfire needed to sink: 8,415 lbs / 3,817 Kg = 78.5 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.3
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 72 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.31
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.475
Sharpness coefficient: 0.32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8.58
'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim: 69
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 113.4 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 92.1 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 114 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.98
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs / square foot or 485 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.17
(for 18.04 ft / 5.50 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 3.11 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

That´s an interesting design, LA.

Given its limited displacement it carries many guns and decent armor without lacking both speed and range. I just wonder if you´ll use one quad and two triples or two quads and a twin for your main guns. Personally I don´t like 6" quads for several reason (you know them so I won´t repeat them). I also think the bc used is at the edge of being too low but that´s maybe just me. :o)

Cheers,

HoOmAn

layout is 4 - 3s - 3 and I actually think it is rather nice myself :-)

78 hits to sink?
How did you get it that high, mine are lower than that!

stability mate - stability ...

Indeed.... That´s why the RSAN decided not to aim for seakeeping 1.20 but for high stability....

Quoted

Originally posted by LordArpad
stability mate - stability ...

nonsense.

it's because it's spanish. We're renowned to be the best hit-receivers of the world. We can't hit a $hit, because we suck at it, but when it comes down to be the most honorable (or stupid) receiving knocks, punches, shots, guns, explosion or whatever, we always are the best .


so, as a good spanish cruiser, the ship can handle a lot of hits without going down. Just as us real spanish do. Careful, though, you won't hit a $hit with those spanish guns

ok, this design has made it officially on the build list now.

Guardian, Denmark Cruiser laid down 1914

Displacement:
7,642 t light; 7,936 t standard; 9,362 t normal; 10,465 t full load
Loading submergence 540 tons/feet

Dimensions:
480.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 23.00 ft (normal load)
146.30 m x 21.34 m x 7.01 m

Armament:
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4 Main turrets x 2 guns, 2 superfiring turrets)
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns
12 - 3.00" / 76 mm AA guns
16 - 0.51" / 13 mm guns
Weight of broadside 1,283 lbs / 582 kg
8 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Belt 3.00" / 76 mm, upper belt 2.00" / 51 mm, end belts 1.00" / 25 mm
Belts cover 119 % of normal area
Main turrets 2.00" / 51 mm, 2nd gun shields 0.75" / 19 mm
AA gun shields 0.50" / 13 mm, Light gun shields 0.25" / 6 mm
Armour deck 1.25" / 32 mm, Conning tower 2.50" / 64 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 60,298 shp / 44,982 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 14,000nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
475 - 618

Cost:
£0.926 million / $3.703 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 160 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 1,473 tons, 15.7 %
Belts: 804 tons, 8.6 %, Armament: 207 tons, 2.2 %, Armour Deck: 437 tons, 4.7 %
Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.3 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,323 tons, 24.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,586 tons, 38.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,720 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.1 %

Metacentric height 2.9

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.00
Shellfire needed to sink: 11,457 lbs / 5,197 Kg = 106.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 4.1
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 100 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.40
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.40

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.424
Sharpness coefficient: 0.35
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 6.96
'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim: 79
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 95.3 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 158.4 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 125 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.89
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs / square foot or 525 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.76
(for 23.75 ft / 7.24 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 8.81 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

Guardian class cruisers, "Guardian", "Protector", & " Defender", are designed to patrol the Danish Protectorates in the Far East and Africa,
and as a result these vessels often take on the role of floating embassies for the Danish Crown.
Their Primary duties are the protection of the merchant marine, and the overseas territories.
They are built for long range patrols with decent speed.

Well I think twin 6" turrets in 1914 would be very rare and even more rare in a 4x2 design.

The Assassin is right, you´re using a design feature that is 8 years ahead of its time. The first CLs to have a 4x2 layout were the french PRIMAGOUTs (sp?) which were laid down in 1922...

Cheers,

HoOmAn

I agree - twin shields might just pass, but no twin turrets. also 152 and 105 mm??? weird layout

Actually, I can´t even think of a single scout or protected cruiser that featured twin shields in 1914.

IIRC, the first CL build with a single twin for and aft was OMAHA and the first to be planned (but not completed) with the classical 4x2 layout was post-war EMDEN. Also planned 1921 was IJN YUBARI but here again we have no 4x2 layout but something in between (twins superfiring singles for and aft).

Ciao,

HoOmAn

the german small cruisers from wiesbaden on had 1 twin shield on the poop IIRC, the rest were singles. www.german-navy.de sadly doesn't show that but of you count gun mounts you come up with 7 mounts for 8 guns definitely remember the drawing in Groener show a twin shield on the poop.

cheers

Bernhard

Sorry, but your informations are wrong. The german CLs had two guns side by side on their poop as can be seen here: http://www.deutsche-schutzgebiete.de/sms_emden_2.htm

The drawings one can find in Gröner also show this feature even though it looks as if there was a twin shield: http://homepages.fh-giessen.de/~hg6339/d…oenigsberg2.htm

But that was not the case.

Cheers,

HoOmAn

Acctually only one cruiser I know of has 8x6" in 4 twin turrets, the swedish Fylgia. She was intended to act as a scout for the Swedish fleet. Fylgia was laid down in 1903. All other cruisers either had singles in sheilds or at the most two twin turrets suplemented by single sheilded or casemated mounts.

You´re right, Wes, I forgot FYLGIA but you´ve got to mention that that cruiser featured a wing turret layout, not a classical 4x2 with two turrets superfiring. So the argument still stands: A cruiser with a 4x2 (2 superfiring) is unrealistic for 1914...

Well, maybe a single ship, build as an experiment, laid down 1914 and completed ~16/17... That _could_ be possible but surely not an entire class (or several classes) of several units.

IIRC the Brits, the ones with more cruisers than anybody else, started to play around with twin turrets for light cruisers in the early twenties when they put a single 6" twin on HMS ENTERPRISE as a testbed.

Regards,

HoOmAn

The HMS Enterprize would be the first cruiser that I'm aware of that used a twin 6" turret and only 1 forward. As to twin 8" the U.S. had them as early as 1903 in the California/Pennsylvania class AC.
The germans started with the twin 8" with the Blucher in 1908 and the Brits went with the 4x2 8" layout with the Kent class in 1924. The Japanese used 2 twin 6" turrets in the Yubari design in 1922.

After you all sank her with all hands, I did a little re-building....
Can I help it if I have a turret fetish !!!!!

Guardian, Denmark Cruiser laid down 1914

Displacement:
7,688 t light; 7,974 t standard; 9,362 t normal; 10,435 t full load
Loading submergence 540 tons/feet

Dimensions:
480.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 23.00 ft (normal load)
146.30 m x 21.34 m x 7.01 m

Armament:
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns
8 - 3.00" / 76 mm AA guns
16 - 0.51" / 13 mm guns
Weight of broadside 1,189 lbs / 539 kg
12 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Belt 3.50" / 89 mm, upper belt 2.00" / 51 mm, end belts 1.25" / 32 mm
Belts cover 119 % of normal area
Main gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm, AA gun shields 0.75" / 19 mm, Light gun shields 0.50" / 13 mm
Armour deck 1.25" / 32 mm, Conning tower 2.50" / 64 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 69,363 shp / 51,745 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 13,500nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
475 - 618

Cost:
£0.977 million / $3.910 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 149 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 1,397 tons, 14.9 %
Belts: 902 tons, 9.6 %, Armament: 33 tons, 0.4 %, Armour Deck: 437 tons, 4.7 %
Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.3 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,672 tons, 28.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,371 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,674 tons, 17.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.1 %

Metacentric height 2.9

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.00
Shellfire needed to sink: 9,461 lbs / 4,291 Kg = 87.6 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 5.2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 100 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.18
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.424
Sharpness coefficient: 0.35
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 6.96
'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim: 90
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 106.3 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 139.8 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 117 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.90
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs / square foot or 501 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.57
(for 22.50 ft / 6.86 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 7.56 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

Guardian class cruisers, "Guardian", "Protector", & " Defender", are designed to patrol the Danish Protectorates in the Far East and Africa,
and as a result these vessels often take on the role of floating embassies for the Danish Crown.
Their Primary duties are the protection of the merchant marine, and the overseas territories.
They are built for long range and high speed.