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AdmKuznetsov

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61

Saturday, March 6th 2004, 11:35pm

Thanks.

Quoted

Very impressive cut and past job there Stuart!


Thanks. We do what we can with assets available limited artistic talent, and a little editing out of guns in deck mounts, and a little editing in of additional casemates.

Quoted

Shes quite a looker, beter than the historical russian designs for sure.


That's just what the design staff thought. They were resumed in 1917, and completed in 1919.

Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

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62

Tuesday, March 9th 2004, 5:18pm



Another rendition of Adm. Kuznetsov's light cruiser. Shes not a perfect match, but not too bad either.

LordArpad

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63

Tuesday, March 9th 2004, 5:23pm

those guns in the casemates in the northern ocean - interesting idea. I like it from a storytrelling POV, but they are going to be a pain ...

Red Admiral

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64

Tuesday, March 9th 2004, 5:26pm

The seas aren't too bad in the Baltic and Black seas, but yes they would be a right pain. However they are stationed with the Northern fleet. These Russians must be men of steel. Or brains of steel.. ;)

AdmKuznetsov

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65

Tuesday, March 9th 2004, 10:51pm

Sailing the Barents Sea

Quoted

However they are stationed with the Northern fleet. These Russians must be men of steel. Or brains of steel.. ;)


(considers... Kursk... Borodino... 1812 and 1941... Mukden... Port Arthur... sinking the Japanese Army's siege train at the mouth of Tokyo Bay... Slava taking on multiple German dreadnoughts...)

A bit of both actually.

Admiral Lazarev class got their start in the Baltic and Black Seas, but were transferred North when it was decided to make Northern Fleet main element of Russian Federation Navy. Experience of having imports/exports through Black Sea cut off forced Navy Staff to consider how to prevent recurrence. Murmansk area has Russia's best access to World Ocean, so Murmansk was developed into major naval base. Of Russia's few cruisers, Admiral Lazarev Class were most suitable for deployment there. And yes, gunnery crews manning casemates get drenched. But they're good seaboats, so at least they don't take waves over the bow.

And don't feel too sorry for them. 4th Cruiser Squadron is presently enjoying Carribean Sea as part of Atlantis-France-Iberia-Russian Naval Patrol. Third Cruiser Squadron may be transferred to Baltic Fleet upon completion of General Admiral Apraxin class, since Palladia class cruisers of Baltic Fleet's 2nd Cruiser Squadron (laid down 1897) are showing age.

LordArpad

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66

Wednesday, March 10th 2004, 12:20pm

Quoted

4th Cruiser Squadron is presently enjoying Carribean Sea as part of Atlantis-France-Iberia-Russian Naval Patrol


and just imagine the beach party we are going to have when that has blown over ... Iberian wine, French beer, Russian vodka, Atlantean ??? and loads of spitroasted animals.

thesmilingassassin

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67

Wednesday, March 10th 2004, 10:37pm

....Hmmmm I never thought of an alcahol native to Atlantis.....perhaps my own personal favorite, Wiskey would be the signature drink of Atlantis!

AdmKuznetsov

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68

Wednesday, March 10th 2004, 11:01pm

beach party - Oui ili Da!

Russians do <amazing> things with Atlantic Salmon. Might even have some Sturgeon brought over from the Caspian (live, in tanks). Yummy.

And vodka. D'ya want lemon, current, pepper vodkas? Or just the plain aviation fuel quivalent?

Commodore Green

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69

Thursday, March 11th 2004, 11:01pm

The (Hopefully) Final Draft of KDM Vaerge!

<img src="http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/CommodoreGreen/Vaerge_Final.gif">

thesmilingassassin

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70

Friday, March 12th 2004, 12:55am

Shes very nice and shes up to date too!

LordArpad

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71

Friday, March 12th 2004, 1:19am

Quoted

And vodka. D'ya want lemon, current, pepper vodkas? Or just the plain aviation fuel quivalent?


whatever, as long as it contains alcohol I don't think our sailors are going to be overly fussed ;-)

LordArpad

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72

Friday, March 12th 2004, 9:13am

well, back to the original idea:

here is Avoca, now moved to 1925:

[IMG]http://graylion.sm-wg.net/Iberian Avoca class CL.GIF[/IMG]

a great cooperation between Red Admiral and Wes I may say!

Bernhard

AdmKuznetsov

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73

Friday, March 12th 2004, 10:50am

HMIS Avoca

Sleek. Plenty of guns too!

HoOmAn

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74

Friday, March 12th 2004, 12:34pm

Nicely done...

An interesting design even though her hull looks somewhat odd aft.

What I really like is the shape/look of those turrets. Nicely put.

Problems I see:

The TTs seem to be too long.

The boats abreast the forward funnel have to be modified. The reason is that those boats originally were created by ripping (;o)) them out of one of my early drawings. Back then I made the mistake to put the davits _in front_ of the boats but that is bs because this way one wouldn´t be able to lower the boat outside the ships hull. They have to be on the other side and thus the boats would be in the foreground, not the davids. Just remove those vertical lines fore and aft of that boat and everything will be fine. ;o)

Look at the picture below where you can see the same boat abreast the forward superstructure - just without those davids in the foreground.



Regards,

HoOmAn

Rooijen10

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75

Friday, March 12th 2004, 4:24pm

Quoted

The boats abreast the forward funnel have to be modified. The reason is that those boats originally were created by ripping (;o)) them out of one of my early drawings. Back then I made the mistake to put the davits _in front_ of the boats but that is bs because this way one wouldn´t be able to lower the boat outside the ships hull.


Hate to bring it to you but when I look at your picture HoOmAn, the davits don't reach far enough to get your boats over the side. Actually (as I see it) your first attempt is the correct one. You can't see it on that scale of yours but davits can be turned around so that the boat is swung over the side of the ship, allowing the sailors to lower it into the water.
When Looking at the book "Anatomy of the Ship: Battleship Fuso", you can clearly see when looking at the top view that (looking at it from the side) the davits will be in front of your boats (I wonder how fast they could get the boats into the water that way). I did spot one photo in the book with the boat on deck and the davits turned inward, but most of the pictures they are either empty or the boat is haning over the edge. If you want I can scan a few pics and send them to you.
When you draw the davits behind the boat, the boat should be hanging over the side.
I also have a book called "Battleship of the Scharnhorst class" and at first glance on the side view, the davits are in front of the boat. Going to take a shower first but will look at the photo's in that book for more evidence.

Walter

Rooijen10

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76

Friday, March 12th 2004, 5:00pm

Looking at another book, Davits behind the boats are possible, but they have to be longer...

Walter

HoOmAn

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77

Friday, March 12th 2004, 5:12pm

Yes and no...

Well, when looking at the drawings in Whitley for example one can also see the davits outboard of the boats but when comparing those drawings with the pictures in the very same book one has to state that the drawings aren´t that adequate.

In fact there a numerous, literally douzands, photos where one can see that davits worked like this:



There are also pictures that show davits outside of boats but in those cases the davits are more than a boats length apart from eachother - what does make some sense, though.

However, it surely is not a big problem and the drawing in question still gives a very good impression how those iberian cruisers look like.

Regards,

HoOmAn

PS: The picture above also explains why "my" davits look so short but will still be large enough to bring the boats to sea.

HoOmAn

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78

Friday, March 12th 2004, 5:17pm

Further more...

One also has to note that the topview shows the davids _not_ outside the boats.... At least as far as I can see.

Regards,

HoOmAn

Red Admiral

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79

Friday, March 12th 2004, 5:18pm

Yes she does look very strange aft. However i'm not sure wether Bernhard wants to reveal the purpose yet..

Remember those torpedoes are 600mm not 533mm.

Rooijen10

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80

Friday, March 12th 2004, 5:49pm

About the davits (I know we're connected to ICQ at the moment, but this way the others will know as well): they way you drew that picture gives you a good impression how they work and it works good, too. But as I said (on ICQ), funny thing is that, when looking at your picture, I can't seem to imagine them that way.
I was wondering why, but when looking at it magnified with MS' Photo Editor, I realize it is because of that little hook on the end which makes me thing of that other Davit system.
... but to say that 'putting the davits _in front_ of the boats is bs because this way one wouldn´t be able to lower the boat outside the ships hull' is BS, cause it actually can work that way.
On the other hand, when looking at Bernhard's design, the top view shows them behind the boats and (as you pointed out) the davits are in front of the boat on the side view.

Quoted

Yes she does look very strange aft. However i'm not sure wether Bernhard wants to reveal the purpose yet..

Hmmm... nice place to land a helicopter. :-)
Actually, one can put a crane, catapult and planes on that bit with an upgrade of the ship.
Actually, that rear end reminds me a bit on how stupid the flight deck on the Zuiho currently looks.
... but it reminds me even more on the rear deck of the Kamatari, only more extreme...

Walter