WesWorld

Well paper is cheap while steel is scarce and Persia can always dream...

Marthikhor, Persia Grand Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
22 049 t light; 23 072 t standard; 24 507 t normal; 25 655 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
792,32 ft / 792,32 ft x 88,58 ft x 24,44 ft (normal load)
241,50 m / 241,50 m x 27,00 m x 7,45 m

Armament:
9 - 9,84" / 250 mm guns (3x3 guns), 476,75lbs / 216,25kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 5,12" / 130 mm guns (10x2 guns), 67,03lbs / 30,40kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
4 - 5,12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67,03lbs / 30,40kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
56 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (14x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6 009 lbs / 2 725 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8,66" / 220 mm 515,01 ft / 156,98 m 11,50 ft / 3,51 m
Ends: 0,39" / 10 mm 277,29 ft / 84,52 m 11,50 ft / 3,51 m
Upper: 1,57" / 40 mm 515,01 ft / 156,98 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7,87" / 200 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 3,94" / 100 mm
2nd: 2,36" / 60 mm 1,97" / 50 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
3rd: 2,36" / 60 mm 1,97" / 50 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3,54" / 90 mm, Conning tower: 3,54" / 90 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 165 178 shp / 123 223 Kw = 35,00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2 583 tons

Complement:
979 - 1 273

Cost:
£11,147 million / $44,587 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 751 tons, 3,1 %
Armour: 6 593 tons, 26,9 %
- Belts: 2 475 tons, 10,1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 865 tons, 3,5 %
- Armour Deck: 3 188 tons, 13,0 %
- Conning Tower: 64 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 4 578 tons, 18,7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 027 tons, 40,9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 458 tons, 10,0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33 064 lbs / 14 998 Kg = 69,4 x 9,8 " / 250 mm shells or 3,0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 5,0 ft / 1,5 m
Roll period: 16,6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,500
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32,41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30,97 ft / 9,44 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19,72 ft / 6,01 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19,72 ft / 6,01 m
- Stern: 19,72 ft / 6,01 m
- Average freeboard: 22,38 ft / 6,82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 200,8 %
Waterplane Area: 48 630 Square feet or 4 518 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 148 lbs/sq ft or 721 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,99
- Longitudinal: 1,07
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform




Comment welcome as always

Hmm...

Good blend of armour and guns...

Nice speed...

Secondaries and AA are formidable...

I have two difficulties with it, though. First, she's not very long-ranged. Second, and meta-gaming, you have to build her on a Type 4 slip.

Still, I think you've got a nice winner here, Vukovlad.

Ah well the range... Since Persian ships are mostly in the Gulf or in proximity to allied bases that isnt some thing I prioritize as for the length I get good fees and China seems to want new orders...

And just for fun if the Argies can be persuaded to give a good deal on those 12" Guns...

Marthikhor B, Persia Grand Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
23 030 t light; 23 943 t standard; 25 412 t normal; 26 587 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
792,32 ft / 792,32 ft x 88,58 ft x 24,61 ft (normal load)
241,50 m / 241,50 m x 27,00 m x 7,50 m

Armament:
6 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 5,12" / 130 mm guns (10x2 guns), 67,03lbs / 30,40kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
4 - 5,12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67,03lbs / 30,40kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
56 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (14x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6 902 lbs / 3 131 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8,66" / 220 mm 515,01 ft / 156,98 m 11,50 ft / 3,51 m
Ends: 0,39" / 10 mm 277,29 ft / 84,52 m 11,50 ft / 3,51 m
Upper: 1,57" / 40 mm 515,01 ft / 156,98 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7,87" / 200 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 3,94" / 100 mm
2nd: 2,36" / 60 mm 1,97" / 50 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
3rd: 2,36" / 60 mm 1,97" / 50 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3,54" / 90 mm, Conning tower: 3,54" / 90 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 170 217 shp / 126 982 Kw = 35,00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2 644 tons

Complement:
1 006 - 1 308

Cost:
£11,952 million / $47,809 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 863 tons, 3,4 %
Armour: 6 670 tons, 26,2 %
- Belts: 2 477 tons, 9,7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 894 tons, 3,5 %
- Armour Deck: 3 233 tons, 12,7 %
- Conning Tower: 66 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 4 718 tons, 18,6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 679 tons, 42,0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 382 tons, 9,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
34 562 lbs / 15 677 Kg = 40,0 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 3,0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
Metacentric height 4,9 ft / 1,5 m
Roll period: 16,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,515
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32,35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30,97 ft / 9,44 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Mid (50 %): 26,25 ft / 8,00 m (19,72 ft / 6,01 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19,72 ft / 6,01 m
- Stern: 19,72 ft / 6,01 m
- Average freeboard: 23,36 ft / 7,12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 212,3 %
Waterplane Area: 49 320 Square feet or 4 582 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 750 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,98
- Longitudinal: 1,14
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

That's true enough on both counts.

If only Jap... someone could make a large donation..

I´d say her BC is too low, especially version A.

I agree, .550 is more adequate me finks.

Why? .55 would make her BB hulled

???

According to the text explaining how to use springstyle/springsharp capital ships should use a BC of 0,6 to make the math model work.... 0,5 is for cruisers.

She is a cruiser with neither the guns nor armor of a capital ship (BC&BB)

The RSAN Hertog's, of around the same size (slightly larger), have a BC of 0.50. The German Bluchers are broader, at 0.55, but they have a torpedo bulkhead. The Atlantean Vengeance class BCs are MUCH, MUCH larger, but have a BC of 0.55, and again are equipped with a torpedo bulkhead.

A 0.55 version

Marthikhor C, Persia Grand Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
20 794 t light; 21 790 t standard; 23 174 t normal; 24 282 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
761,15 ft / 761,15 ft x 78,74 ft x 24,61 ft (normal load)
232,00 m / 232,00 m x 24,00 m x 7,50 m

Armament:
9 - 9,84" / 250 mm guns (3x3 guns), 476,75lbs / 216,25kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 5,12" / 130 mm guns (10x2 guns), 67,03lbs / 30,40kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
4 - 5,12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67,03lbs / 30,40kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
56 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (14x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6 009 lbs / 2 725 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8,66" / 220 mm 449,48 ft / 137,00 m 10,66 ft / 3,25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 2,76" / 70 mm 490,49 ft / 149,50 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7,87" / 200 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 3,94" / 100 mm
2nd: 2,36" / 60 mm 1,97" / 50 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
3rd: 2,36" / 60 mm 1,97" / 50 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3,54" / 90 mm, Conning tower: 3,54" / 90 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 164 971 shp / 123 068 Kw = 35,00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2 492 tons

Complement:
938 - 1 220

Cost:
£10,903 million / $43,611 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 751 tons, 3,2 %
Armour: 6 034 tons, 26,0 %
- Belts: 2 217 tons, 9,6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 901 tons, 3,9 %
- Armour Deck: 2 854 tons, 12,3 %
- Conning Tower: 62 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 4 572 tons, 19,7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 336 tons, 40,3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 381 tons, 10,3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29 519 lbs / 13 390 Kg = 61,9 x 9,8 " / 250 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03
Metacentric height 3,7 ft / 1,1 m
Roll period: 17,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,77
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31,39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30,97 ft / 9,44 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 27,89 ft / 8,50 m
- Mid (50 %): 27,89 ft / 8,50 m (19,72 ft / 6,01 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19,72 ft / 6,01 m
- Stern: 19,72 ft / 6,01 m
- Average freeboard: 24,05 ft / 7,33 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 207,7 %
Waterplane Area: 43 546 Square feet or 4 046 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 704 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,98
- Longitudinal: 1,22
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
The RSAN Hertog's, of around the same size (slightly larger), have a BC of 0.50. The German Bluchers are broader, at 0.55, but they have a torpedo bulkhead. The Atlantean Vengeance class BCs are MUCH, MUCH larger, but have a BC of 0.55, and again are equipped with a torpedo bulkhead.

I´m aware of the Hertogs being my weak spot regarding BC. They are one of my oldest designs ever and when introduced to WesWorld they should have been remodelled - but I had already drawn them and thus kept the design as is as it would otherwise have required too much work (new BC => new dimensions => new drawing).

However, you´re absolutely right to point out their BC is way too low for a ship their size. They should thus NOT be used as an example to justify other designs with BCs too low.

The only two capital ships I can think of Cb values for off hand are HMS Vanguard and RN Littorio at 0.557 and 0.565 respectively.

You are comparing apples and oranges or Battleships with Cruisers

I think what Vuko is trying to say is, while it's a very large cruiser, he still considers it having a cruiser hullform, not a capital ship's. Whether it's possible to build a cruiser hullform that large, I'll leave to the experts.

Sort of I think that its more reasonable to compare it with 16-18Kt CA than with 30+Kt BB with bulges

The U.S.S. Alaska is at .490 according to Springsharp.

That is close to my A & B at .5-.515

If you've ever seen an overhead picture of Alaska next to an Iowa, you'll definitely see the difference, though!