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HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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21

Friday, August 1st 2008, 5:11pm

Might be an option - depending on why Australia should do that and how many projects Australia is running on parallel....

There are no rules so all is free - wich is a good thing if handled carefully. Find a good story that explains why Siam can do all these things (Army, Airforce, Navy need funding, visionary commanders willing to force the developement of new tools and technologies and answers to questions like where all the experienced and trained workers come from, the machinery and tools for production, the money, the political will, the experienced flight crews, the oxygen or even helium etc.) and everybody´s please.

howard

Unregistered

22

Friday, August 1st 2008, 5:48pm

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Might be an option - depending on why Australia should do that and how many projects Australia is running on parallel....

I can't tell you that as that is between Australaia and Siam.

There are no rules so all is free - wich is a good thing if handled carefully. Find a good story that explains why Siam can do all these things (Army, Airforce, Navy need funding, visionary commanders willing to force the developement of new tools and technologies and answers to questions like where all the experienced and trained workers come from, the machinery and tools for production, the money, the political will, the experienced flight crews, the oxygen or even helium etc.) and everybody´s please.


1. I've pointed out in the storyline where the questions are already being raised in Siam. The SEP is asking those very questions as they see change as being too drastic with the new king and his advisors.
2. Siam is trying with the help of a few visionaries to do exactly what you describe. In a sense she is a miniature version of Japan or Germany starting from zero and trying to leapfrog into the modern world by grabbing every opportunity she can and seeking help from anywhere to modernize and revolutionize.
3. Why do you think the government sent those technical missions abroad?
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_Restoration

Quoted


The Meiji Restoration (»­°, Meiji ishin?), also known as the Meiji Ishin, Revolution, or Renewal, was a chain of events that led to enormous changes in Japan's political and social structure. It occurred in the latter half of the 19th century, a period that spans both the late Edo period (often called Late Tokugawa shogunate) and the beginning of the Meiji Era. Probably the most important foreign account of the events between 1862-1869 is contained in A Diplomat in Japan by Sir Ernest Satow. The restoration was a direct response to the opening of Japan by the arrival of the Black Ships of Commodore Matthew Perry and made Imperial Japan a great power.


Stay tuned.

H

23

Friday, August 1st 2008, 5:59pm

What's the population of Siam in 1936? Today it's one of the top 30 economies and in the top 20 population wise, but what about back then?

howard

Unregistered

24

Friday, August 1st 2008, 6:12pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
What's the population of Siam in 1936? Today it's one of the top 30 economies and in the top 20 population wise, but what about back then?


Actual:
http://gpih.ucdavis.edu/files/BLW/Siam_1929-1930.doc
Potential:
http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs4/siam2.shtml
Substitute Denmark.

H.

25

Friday, August 1st 2008, 6:15pm

I'll have to read the links when I get home, can't see them on this machine.

26

Friday, August 1st 2008, 7:43pm

Airships are extremely expensive.

howard

Unregistered

27

Friday, August 1st 2008, 11:03pm

M reads the report. "You are sure."

The chief of the Area F says; "Yes."

"Pass it on to the intellectual and to the French immediately." M says.

"The French?" Area F says bewildered.

"Yes, the French." snaps M. He waves the man off in dismissal. 'Two groups of foreigners in country? What is going on?'

H.

28

Friday, August 1st 2008, 11:31pm

actually what really makes airships expensive is what their filled with - helium or hydrogen gas.

In 1914, an airship took on average about six weeks to build and cost about a fraction of the price of a cruiser. True, the construction required specialized skills, and some speciallized materials.

Filling the gas bags is the really expensive part. In 1922 it cost about $120 per thousand cubic feet to fill with Helium gas; only about $2 to $3 per thousand cubic feet with Hydrogen gas. Thus a single fill up for 2.5 million cubic feet of an airship the size of the LZ 126 Los Angeles , cost in the area of $240,000, a rather pricy sum in the early 1920s.

Helium prices did slowly come down from the 1920s on, as more of it became available, but it remains still considerable more expensive then hydrogen.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Agent148" (Aug 1st 2008, 11:50pm)


howard

Unregistered

29

Friday, August 1st 2008, 11:39pm

That fits. I figured about $83 M bayt or about $900,000 US for the Thai investment; a lot but far less than a destroyer in 1936.

H.

30

Friday, August 1st 2008, 11:50pm

Quoted

Originally posted by howard
That fits. I figured about $83 M bayt or about $900,000 US for the Thai investment; a lot but far less than a destroyer in 1936.

H.


That's assuming you can even obtain any... As I recall, Canada and the US are the current lead suppliers of Helium, and Canada's reserves are mostly comitted to Commonwealth projects. I think Atlantis has been getting it's Helium from the US, and with the US's own large airship program, I'm not sure they'd have any slack either. And that's before looking into political ramifications.

31

Friday, August 1st 2008, 11:53pm

Which means resorting to hydrogen for filling the gas bags in the Thai airship, with all the safety concerns that implies, if helium isnt available to the Thai government.

Actually hydrogen is safe enough, IF one observes some ironclad safety regulations regarding its use, in operating airships.

howard

Unregistered

32

Friday, August 1st 2008, 11:54pm

I thought of that too.

It seems that the fact that AUSTRALIA is involved is still not sinking in?

H.

33

Saturday, August 2nd 2008, 12:06am

Australia doesn't produce it's own helium, and thus is in no position to gaurantee supplying any to Siam.

howard

Unregistered

34

Saturday, August 2nd 2008, 12:07am

But it can supply hydrogen.

H.

35

Saturday, August 2nd 2008, 12:08am

As I understand hydrogen is actually the better lifting agent. (Well, it lifts more for the volume involved, or some such.)

I've been tossing around some crazy ideas for an Irish ASW airship force myself, based on the Atlantean, American and Iberian model. Nothing fancy, just a force capable of protecting theoretical convoys on the western approaches. Airships just have a nice "cool" factor that MUST be exploited.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Brockpaine" (Aug 2nd 2008, 12:10am)


36

Saturday, August 2nd 2008, 12:19am

Hydrogen IS the better lifting agent, being lighter than helium for the same volume. It just has the unfortunate tendency to catch fire if it's allowed to mix with oxygen and a spark is applied. As long as it's not allowed to mix with oxygen, it's not a problem.

37

Saturday, August 2nd 2008, 12:29am

You might be better off sticking with cheaper blimps if you're just looking for ASW work, Brock. The USN and Lanteans are doing the same thing.

38

Saturday, August 2nd 2008, 12:49am

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
You might be better off sticking with cheaper blimps if you're just looking for ASW work, Brock. The USN and Lanteans are doing the same thing.


And the Iberians......

39

Saturday, August 2nd 2008, 1:04am

Atlantis is using U.S. supplied helium, yes.

You'd be correct on the Blimps, much more cost effective, they don't need huge mooring masts or obsenely large hangars and they are much easier to handle than a large lumbering rigid.

Atlantis has been reluctant to build more rigids for these vary reasons though a larger pair of ships is being planned to carry more aircraft, some MG's for defence and possibly radar as in the U.S. trials.

40

Saturday, August 2nd 2008, 3:18am

Siam has wanted airships for a while now, and I think Swampy even built the required infrastructure.

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?threadid=4135&sid=

Australia is heavily involved in this project, and might even be able to supply some helium (from Canada). Now there is something in the wind that just might allow Siam to buy all the helium it needs. But hydrogen is not that bad. Just look at all the WWI zeppelins that were shot full of holes and did not burn.