First bomber from china

Sage

Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 5:12pm

GA-1
Guizhou Aviation Industry
Type: medium bomber

Engine:
Two 1,100 hp ( 821 kW) M-88B radial pistons

Speed / ceiling / range:
max Speed: 430 km/h;
max ceiling: 9 700 m
max range: 3 800 km
Climb Rate 886 ft/min (270 m/min)

Weight:
Empty Weight 13,228 lb ( 6000 kg)
Maximum Take-off Weight 22,046 lb ( 10000 kg)

Dimensions:
wingspan 21,44 m;
length 14,80 m;
wingarea 66,70 m²

Armament (Defensive):
1 x 12.7mm machine gun in nose position
1 x 12.7mm machine gun in dorsal turret

Bombload:
Maximum bomb load (short range): up to 2500kg
or
3 x 500kg torpedoes in place of bombs.
or
2 x 940kg torpedoes in place of bombs

Crew:
4 men

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Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

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2

Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 5:22pm

Stats look fine, plane looks very fat.

Aren't 500kg torpedoes a bit light? Unless you're using pre-WWI 14" types?

Italian experience with the SM.79 (pretty similar to the GA-1) showed that carrying two torpedoes gave an excessive performance penalty. It was better to just carry one.

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Vukovlad

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3

Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 5:35pm

Dont know about fat looks like the Il-4 has always done

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AdmKuznetsov

Sage

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4

Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 5:41pm

An Il-4 as China's first bomber...

... ahead of the USSR's historical (1942) Il-4?

At least I started a bit smaller, and earlier, and I'm not there yet.

An SB-2 would be a good start...

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "AdmKuznetsov" (Jul 22nd 2008, 5:42pm)

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Vukovlad

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5

Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 5:45pm

The pic is the Il-4, the data are DB-3M

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AdmKuznetsov

Sage

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Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 5:51pm

Which itself didn't get 1100 hp engines

until 1940....

A "first effort" is unlikely to be this far ahead of the historical state of the art.

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Vukovlad

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7

Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 5:57pm

The DB series is mid 30´s, the DB-3f/Il-4 entered production in 1940 and there are plenty of 1100 Hp + engines around in WW

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thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

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8

Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 1:56am

Plenty of Japanese designs to clone, I'm not surprised our Russian player is a little bit anoyed another Russian design is being claimed.

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parador

Sage

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9

Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 12:30pm

I didn't said, the aircraft will go into production, there are only some prototypes.

And yes, the DB series is mid 30's and so the design isn't far ahead (in my dark eyes). And Vuko is right, there are some 1100hp engines around in WW so this is also no problem.

But perhaps Russia has only great fear about a strong neighbour in the south east

and therefore is against this design

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thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

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Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 5:04pm

Like I said, I think its abit more about Russian designs being nicked....

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Vukovlad

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11

Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 5:10pm

Those are Soviet designs, no Soviet Union in WW

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thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

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12

Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 5:17pm

Politics and tech are two entirely different issues.

Russian designs...

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Vukovlad

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Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 5:26pm

No, not really since much of the advancement in Soviet design were made in Special Construction Bureaus/Gulags.
Do we even know if these constructors have remained/ could afford the schooling received in OTL?

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AdmKuznetsov

Sage

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14

Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 5:27pm

The Japanese have an aircraft industry of long standing.
The Russians have an aircraft industry of long standing, and includes historical names such as Tupelov, Petlyakov, Lavochkin, etc. Zhukovsky and TsAGI have had even more resources than historical, due to no disasterous, destructive Russian Civil War.

The Chinese, having started with imported/licenced German designs, are unlikely to have produced such a significant departure from their design roots, as a first effort.

JMHO.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "AdmKuznetsov" (Jul 23rd 2008, 5:32pm)

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Vukovlad

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Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 5:47pm

Well as I said before, WW´s quasi Czarist Russia is unlikely to have many of those names you mentioned, TsAGI (Soviet institute), Lavochkin being a Jew in Russia..., Tupolev, Petlyakov and Sukhoi all TsAGI graduates from less than wealthy families. What you are left with are Artur Antonovich Anatra and Igor Sikorsky both being looked upon with suspicion since they weren't proper Russians

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howard

Unregistered

16

Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 5:53pm

By now Sikorsky is in America building flying boats and playing with helicopters. He ran afoul of the Czar's secret police long before the communists wanted to kill him.

H.

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AdmKuznetsov

Sage

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Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 6:08pm

Why?

Quoted

TsAGI (Soviet institute), Lavochkin being a Jew in Russia..., Tupolev, Petlyakov and Sukhoi all TsAGI graduates from less than wealthy families. What you are left with are Artur Antonovich Anatra and Igor Sikorsky both being looked upon with suspicion since they weren't proper Russians

Quasi-Czarist?? And what does wealth have to do with anything when it comes to picking/developing talent? Russia has been ruled by a coalition of SRs/Mensheviks since February 1917, following, essentially, the economic model of Ryabushinsky, who greatly influenced the planning of Russia's war economy 1915-1916, and whose ideas were very popular with Russian Social Democrats/Socialists at the time. His ideas were the foundation of the NEP, which in the WesWorld has had the advantage of getting implemented from 1917 on and with no Civil War.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "AdmKuznetsov" (Jul 23rd 2008, 6:12pm)

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Vukovlad

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Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 6:18pm

Quasi Czarist is my deduction from what i have seen (Continuation of Czarist foreign policy[with the exception of seeking warm sea ports and secure access to the Atlantic] and retaining all the names of ships changed by the provisional Government suggesting the old elite has remained in place) but this is my POV, wealth is important because higher education is expensive. basically like some others you are picking out the raisins, Soviet development without the unpleasantness making it possible, Soviet aeronautic expertise while retaining all the Czarist expertise in naval matters, Soviet innovation concerning arms and tactics while retaining Czarist stability and continuation.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Vukovlad" (Jul 23rd 2008, 6:26pm)

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AdmKuznetsov

Sage

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Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 6:26pm

Um....

Quoted

Continuation of Czarist foreign policy...

The Czars would have not wasted the chance to get the 1914 border back during the Lithuanian crisis...

Quoted

and retaining all the names of ships changed by the provisional Government suggesting the old elite has remained in place

It's unlucky to change ship names...

How about the names of the Soyuz Nerushimy class:

Soyuz Nerushimy (F)
Narodov Svobodnikh
Revolutsia
Demokratia

Quoted

basically like some others you are picking out the raisins, Soviet development without the unpleasantness making it possible, Soviet aeronautic expertise while retaining all the Czarist expertise in naval matters, Soviet innovation concerning arms and tactics while retaining Czarist stability and continuation.

Zhukovsky established Russia's first aeronautical institute in 1904. Why would Czarist naval expertice have left after Nicky II abdicated? Shaposhnikov, Triandfilov, and Tukhachevsky were all Czarist general staff officers. And yes, I think avoiding the RCW would have been a Good Thing.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "AdmKuznetsov" (Jul 23rd 2008, 6:47pm)

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Vukovlad

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20

Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 6:28pm

Czarist Russia was quite fond of having complaint buffer states

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