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Shahbaz

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Vukovlad

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1

Sunday, July 20th 2008, 12:09am

Shahbaz

Despite the failure of the earlier private venture aircraft Shahbaz has been allocated IDC funds to develop a indigenous fighter although this time heavy involvement of foreign experts primarily from allied and friendly countries is expected.

Mock up of the Shahbaz Simorgh

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Vukovlad" (Nov 10th 2009, 4:03am)

Brockpaine

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Sunday, July 20th 2008, 12:23am

What plane does that remind me of? The Lavochkin La-7? ?( It looks a bit Seafury-like...

Vukovlad

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Sunday, July 20th 2008, 12:40am

I guess it could remind you of the La-5/7 but it is the I-28

Vukovlad

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Sunday, July 20th 2008, 11:37pm

Shahbaz Simorgh projected performance and data:

Type: Single seat fighter
Engine: 1 x 1500 HP radial
Span: 10.40 M
Length: 8.54 M
Empty weight: 2300 Kg
Loaded weight: 2850 Kg
Wing area: 16.50 Sq M
Max: 620 Km/h @ 6000 M
Combat Range: 800 km
Armament: 2 x 20mm AC, 2 x 12,7mm MG

Red Admiral

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Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 4:42pm

What do you imagine the construction being? Wood or steel tube and fabric? I imagine you'd have to import the engines from India or elsewhere.

I'm a bit worried with the cannons. You'd need a fairly short one to fit into the available space. Oerlikon FF is probably easiest.

Vukovlad

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Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 5:03pm

Mixed Wood/Steel construction.
Probably a Japanese engine havent decided yet.
Since the ShVak is unlikely... havent given it much thought, the Azeri situation has reached boiling point half a year early

Vukovlad

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Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 11:29pm

Or perhaps put 4 x 15mm MG since they are already in service and available from India

Red Admiral

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Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 11:50pm

There are lots of different fits. 4x12.7mm manufactured indigenously would give reasonable firepower, but if Brownings then the rate of fire drops a lot with synchronising them.

Vukovlad

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Tuesday, July 22nd 2008, 11:53pm

So has Italy developed any 20mm AC in WW? Looking in the various nations encyclopedia the weapons arent often mentioned other than caliber

Red Admiral

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Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 12:01am

No. The few 20mm cannon that Italy uses are Oerlikon FFLs in 20x100. Recoil operated with a drum feed. Reasonably light at 30kg with 500rpm rate of fire. The Breda and Scotti 20mm cannon in 20x138 don't exist, being supplanted by a 25mm Breda-Madsen in 25x?? (I never really decided but probably around 140-150) that is rather bigger and heavier. It'll be converted to aircraft use eventually and give reasonable performance as an anti-tank weapon.

This gives a good summary of the Oerlikon family.

Vukovlad

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Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 12:11am

That is the problem, not many 20mm AC around... So either a Oerlikon or Ikaria or perhaps a short barrel HS 404

Red Admiral

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12

Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 12:15am

The HS 404 can't be syrnchronised unfortunately but I'm not sure whether the Oerlikon APIs could be either...There isn't really much else available.

Vukovlad

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13

Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 12:50am

Look like its going to be two prototype versions

Type I

Type: Single seat fighter
Engine: 1 x Wright R-2600, 1600 Hp
Span: 10.40 M
Length: 8.54 M
Empty weight: 2300 Kg
Loaded weight: 2850 Kg
Wing area: 16.50 Sq M
Max: 620 Km/h @ 6000 M
Combat Range: 800 km
Armament: 2 x 20mm Ikaria FF, 2 x 12,7mm MG

Type II

Type: Single seat fighter
Engine: 1 x EWIL L-1500, 1482 HP
Span: 10.40 M
Length: 8.54 M
Empty weight: 2300 Kg
Loaded weight: 2850 Kg
Wing area: 16.50 Sq M
Max: 620 Km/h @ 6000 M
Combat Range: 800 km
Armament: 4 x 15mm MG

Hrolf Hakonson

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Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 1:54am

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
The HS 404 can't be syrnchronised unfortunately but I'm not sure whether the Oerlikon APIs could be either...There isn't really much else available.


No, the Oerlikon's can't be synchronized.

Rheinmetall and Mauser are working on non-Oerlikon 20mm cannon, but the only one that's available in early 1936 is the MG-204, which is pretty big and heavy and not particularly fast firing (all of which are reasons it hasn't been adopted by Germany). Eventually they'll get to the historical MG-151/20 and a longer-cased, higher velocity design, but they're not there yet.

Vukovlad

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15

Wednesday, July 23rd 2008, 2:02am

Guess it will have to be the Indian 15mm MG´s by default

Vukovlad

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Saturday, August 16th 2008, 6:41pm

The Shahbaz Simorgh is nearing completion (first and second prototype) the first flight is expected in August with test program beginning in September

Type: Single seat fighter
Engine: 1 x Wright R-2600, 1600 Hp
Span: 10.40 M
Length: 8.54 M
Empty weight: 2300 Kg
Loaded weight: 2850 Kg
Wing area: 16.50 Sq M
Max: 635 Km/h @ 6000 M
Combat Range: 800 km
Armament: 4x15mm MG


Later prototypes will be armed with 1 Skoda produced 20mm M-57 Motor driven Automatic cannons and 2 12.7mm browning MG

M-57 MDAC (Twin barreled)
Total weight: 140Kg
ROF: 950rpm/barrel
Caliber: 20x110

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Vukovlad" (Aug 19th 2008, 10:46am)

Hrolf Hakonson

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17

Sunday, August 17th 2008, 6:59pm

That cannon is EXTREMELY heavy for a 20mm aircraft cannon, it weighs as much as a 30mm MK-103 (1), and while the ROF is pretty good, I don't know that it's worth an extra 100 kg compared to (say) an MG-151/20 (which admittedly isn't out yet) for the extra 200 rpm (which might well have to be reduced by a good bit for a synchronized mounting, if the weapon's even synchronizeable).

Vukovlad

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18

Sunday, August 17th 2008, 7:06pm

Huh? You know its still a 20mm version of the GKM we discussed earlier?

Hrolf Hakonson

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19

Sunday, August 17th 2008, 7:16pm

Just pointing out that on an efficiency basis, it's not a winner.

Red Admiral

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20

Sunday, August 17th 2008, 7:22pm

20x110RB with power rating of 18 (20x82=16) with 1900rpm = 576 gun power (MG151/20 = 192) and efficiency 4.1 (MG151/20 = 4.6)

I'm not sure why Persia needs a gun that powerful though.