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1

Tuesday, June 17th 2008, 10:32pm

The Sudetenland Issue

The German government, as planned, provided the following complaints on the situation in the Sudetenland to the League of Nations in mid-September, 1935. The German Foreign Ministry emphasizes that the issues are claims and accusations that it is not in a position to confirm or deny, that is for the League to determine whether the Czech government has broken the Treaty on Minorities that it signed or not. [Note: the list of complaints is taken directly from history, with some improvements to the unemployment situation to account for the lack of a world-wide Great Depression. Czech trade would be hurt, however, by the PETA agreements since that would lower their competitor's costs within Europe, a primary market for those goods.]



History
On 4 March 1919, almost the entire Sudeten German population peacefully demonstrated for their right of self-determination. These demonstrations were accompanied by a one-day general strike on the part of the Germans. The Sudeten German Social Democrat Party, which was the largest party at the time, was responsible for the initiative of carrying out these demonstrations, but it was supported by the bourgeois German parties. These mass demonstrations were put down by the Czech military, involving 54 deaths and well over one hundred injuries.

The Treaty of St. Germain of 10.9.1919 assigned the Sudetenland to Czechoslovakia. The new Czechoslovak state regarded them as a minority. Nevertheless, some 90 percent of them lived in territories in which they themselves represented 90 percent or more of the population.

In 1921, the population of multi-ethnic Czechoslovakia comprised 6.6 million Czechs, 3.2 million Germans, two million Slovaks, 0.7 million Hungarians, half a million Ruthenians (Rusyns), 300,000 Jews, 100,000 Poles as well as Gypsies, Croats and other groups. The Germans thus represented one third of the population of the Czech Lands, and about 23.4 percent of the population of the republic (13.6 million).

The Sudetenland possessed huge chemical works and lignite mines, as well as textile, china, and glass factories. To the west, a solid German triangle surrounding the town Cheb (Eger in German) was most active in pan-German nationalism. The Bohemian Forest extended along the Bavarian frontier to the poor agricultural areas of southern Bohemia.

Moravia contained patches of German settlement to the north and south. More characteristic were the German "language islands" - towns inhabited by German minorities and surrounded by Czechs. Extreme German nationalism was never typical of this area. The German nationalism of the coal-mining region of southern Silesia, 40.5 percent German, was restrained by fear of competition from industry in Germany.

Not all ethnic Germans lived in isolated and well defined areas - because of historical development Czechs and Germans were mixed in many places and at least partial knowledge of second language was quite common.

Since the second half of the 19th century, Czechs and Germans created separate cultural, educational, political and economical institutions which were kept (by both sides) isolated from each other.

Policies affecting Sudeten Germans
Early policies of the Czechoslovak government, intended to correct social injustice and effect a moderate redistribution of wealth, had fallen more heavily on the German population than on other citizens. In 1919 the government confiscated one-fifth of each individual's holdings in paper currency. Those Germans constituting the wealthiest element in the Czech lands were most affected. The Land Control Act brought the expropriation of vast estates, many belonging to German nobility or large estate owners. Land was allotted primarily to Czech peasants, often landless, who constituted the majority of the agricultural population. Only 4.25 percent of all land allotted by January 1935 was received by Sudeten Germans, whose protests were expressed in countless petitions.

According to the 1920 constitution, German minority rights were to be protected; their educational and cultural institutions were to be preserved in proportion to the population. Local hostilities were engendered, however, by policies intended to protect the security of the Czechoslovak state: border forestland, considered the most ancient Sudeten German national territory, was expropriated for security reasons, and Czech soldiers, policemen and bureaucrats were stationed in areas inhabited only by Germans.

Minority laws were most often applied to create new Czech schools in German districts. Sudeten Germans, in possession of a large number of subsidized local theaters, were required to put these at the disposal of the Czech minority one night a week.

Sudeten German industry, highly dependent on foreign trade and having close financial links with Germany, suffered badly beginning in the early 1920s, particularly when banks in Germany failed in 1921-24 and again as Czech exports fell as tariff barriers within Europe but outside Czechoslovakia came down due to the signing of the PETA agreements. Czechs, whose industry was concentrated on the production of essential domestic items, suffered less. By the mid-1930s, unemployment in the Sudetenland was at about 3 times the level as that in the Czech lands [historically, this was about 5 times]. Tensions between the two groups resulted. Relations between Czechs and Germans were further envenomed when Sudeten Germans were forced to turn to the Czechoslovak government and the small loans bank (´ivnostenská banka) for assistance and these authorities often made the hiring of Czechs in proportion to their numbers in the population a condition for aid. Czech workmen, dispatched by the government to engage in public works projects and border fortification in Sudeten German territories, were also resented.

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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2

Sunday, July 6th 2008, 8:32pm

Viscount Eyskens, Belgian (1) Delegate to the League of Nations :

This is a troubling situation my esteemed German colleague brings before the League. Sovereignty of a State is a precious thing, and membership in this League is voluntary, so the League must be cautious about intruding on the Sovereignty of its members.

As Czechoslovakia is essentially a creation of the League via the treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Laye(2), and so the argument could be made that the League has additional rights and obligations in regards to Czechoslovakia, in essence that Czechoslovakia is a special case.

Czechoslovakia is a new state, one must recall that at its core was the Kingdom of Bohemia. Most of the lands now called the Sudetenland or the Hluín region long ago belonged to that Ancient Regime. History tells us that the German population of the Sudetenland has its origins in settlers invited to Bohemia. Some of the descendents of these peoples agitated for separation at the end of the Great War, but Saint-Germain-en-Laye freed the Czech peoples from German dominance and properly restored the lands to the Bohemian, now Czechoslovakian, realm. We must consider it to the credit of the Czechs that, unlike other regions after the Great War, the Germans of the Sudetenland were not forcibly expelled,

We Belgians know the bitterness unjust massacres of civilians cause (3), and certainly the massacre of German-speaking separatists in 1919 could not be tolerated if they had continued. Rights of minorities were incorporated in the 1920 Czech constitution, and such outrages have not continued. Instead, our esteemed colleague brings up lesser issues, as is the right and obligation of the mother country (4) but still with some value and concern.

The issues currently at hand appear to be stoked by locally hard economic times, which are much the result of a changing world. One can sympathize with peoples who peer across the border to their more prosperous ethnic kindred (4), but temporary disruption as economies evolve and change are short compared to the life of a nation and must be endured.

There is something that can be done to ameliorate this economic pain, that is the German state could unilaterally eliminate all tariffs between itself and Czechoslovakia, which should directly aid those unemployed they are concerned about. Further, the League can encourage the Czechs to seek trade treaties with neighbors, or even join PETA.

I recommend that the League schedule this matter to be reexamined in 5 years to ascertain if the issue has improved, or if a further treaty is needed to provide domestic stability for the peoples of Czechoslovakia, regardless of their ethnic derivation, while preserving the Sovereignty and integrity of that nation.


(1) Belgium of course is possessor of ½ of Luxembourg (a member of the German Confederation) from 1830, the northern half is populated by a Flemish minority with ties to the Dutch, and they received Eupen and Malmedy + surroundings at Versaillies, which now form part of Belgium’s German speaking Cantons. Do not expect the Belgians to be keen on minority rights or rolling back territorial acquisitions.

(2) Question – was there ever a LON vote on the German-Austrian merger? Apparently, according to the treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Laye, such was required.

(3) A not so subtle reference to the German occupation of 1914

(4) Belgium endured a substantial depression in 1930-34, mostly via atrocious Govt. policies, however that increased the desire in Flemish and Luxembourgian regions to move beyond the simple Benelux economic treaty.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Kaiser Kirk" (Jul 6th 2008, 11:54pm)


3

Sunday, July 6th 2008, 10:41pm

Quoted

or if a further treaty, likely short of that that crafted for the Aland Crisis,.


No such thing in Wesworld, Finland having been a part of Nordmark for a while

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Earl822" (Jul 6th 2008, 10:41pm)


Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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4

Sunday, July 6th 2008, 11:51pm

Whoops, good point !

I'll go modify it...
now reads :
or if a further treaty is needed to provide domestic stability for the peoples of Czechoslovakia, regardless of their ethnic derivation, while preserving the Sovereignty and integrity of that nation.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Kaiser Kirk" (Jul 6th 2008, 11:54pm)


5

Monday, July 7th 2008, 3:39am

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
(1) Belgium of course is possessor of ½ of Luxembourg (a member of the German Confederation) from 1830, the northern half is populated by a Flemish minority with ties to the Dutch, and they received Eupen and Malmedy + surroundings at Versaillies, which now form part of Belgium’s German speaking Cantons. Do not expect the Belgians to be keen on minority rights or rolling back territorial acquisitions.


Heh, or even majority rights (see the Congo for an example).

6

Monday, July 7th 2008, 3:58am

"The government of Czechoslovakia, in exchange for it's very existence, signed a Treaty with the League on the protection of its various minorities. If that does not give the League the right to at the least look into alleged issues of mistreatment of minorities, I am not sure what the Treaty does."

"Certainly the German government can, and may, unilaterally reduce tariffs on Czech goods that are primarily produced in the Sudetenland., which may have some useful effect on the region. It seems unlikely, however, that that allow the affected industries to grow by 60% or more, as they would have to to be able to both add Czech-speaking staff at the rate supposedly demanded by the small loans bank AND maintain their current staff."

"But let us wait and see what the investigation turns up. It could be that these later isssues are not as they seem, it could be that they are worse than they seem now. Let the light of day be focused on them, and let us see what is to be seen."

Kaiser Kirk

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7

Monday, July 7th 2008, 7:27am

Viscount Eyskens, Belgian Delegate to the League of Nations :

I am pleased to hear from my esteemed German colleague that Germany will be taking proactive measures to ease the economic distress in the Bohemian borderlands. This is in the best tradition of modern German diplomacy.

Many of the Nations represented here today were party to the treaties establishing the Czechoslovak nation. It is my sincere hope that the purpose of this forum, to air differences and concerns in a diplomatic format, may prove useful to the Czechoslovak government in identifying solutions to the problems inherent in integrating their nation.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson

Heh, or even majority rights (see the Congo for an example).


I've had a heck of time deciding how the Kongo would view this. Outside nations deliberating on a sovereign state shades of 1885? Or the league keeping international relations sane? Not to mention how they would view the possible parallel of the Katanga Germans.

However the Belgians deny involvement there. The technicality that the Congo was effectively a personal possession of Leopold, who happened to also be king of the Belgians.

The Kongo sees it different since most of the Force Publique were Belgian, and Leopold favored Belgian companies, and the factories to process the Kongos wealth were built in Belgium, and Leopold spent the money wrested from the Kongo on public works in...Belgium.

Hence why I had a news article regarding a small riot in Kinshasha when the Queen took the Belgian throne, and why Julianna recently declared part of Karols (thus Leopolds) fortune would be spent in the Kongo.

The Dutch of course are not happy with any nation poking their nose into any other nations internal affairs without massive cause, 25 years of Bahrat propaganda causes that, but see no reason to object to the discussion so long as the word plebiscite stays out of it :)

8

Monday, July 7th 2008, 12:26pm

Another angle for the Kongolese to consider is that the Germans are trying to protect members of their own "tribe" who were cut away from the rest of the tribe by an arbitrary, outside imposed boundary over their own wishes, as happened a lot in Africa.

9

Monday, July 7th 2008, 1:07pm

Italy is concerned by the precedent set if moves were put into place to reform the Sudetenland with Germany. Why stop there? Why not take back the Tyrol which is mixed German-Italian area, or Alsace-Lorraine? For that matter, theres a lot of Italians in South-East France, why shouldn't Italy get that bit?

10

Monday, July 7th 2008, 3:25pm

China observed the events, with particular attention

11

Monday, July 7th 2008, 9:26pm

Foreign Minister, Mr. Jozef Beck:

"Poland is of mixed views on this matter. First of all we applaud that the German government is going through the process of negotiation, rather than attempting to seize the area by force, a mistake that our own previous government made. Secondly, we do understand the desire of the people of Germany to have all Germans in Germany, that is a desire we have as well. However, their are other matters to consider. First, although the people of the Sudetenland are German, they have never really been part of a unified German state. Second is a matter of precedent. If Germany gains the Sudetenland, where do we stop? Poland could also, justifiably claim large areas of territory to the east in present day Russia, which while they aren't Polish once were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. For that matter, Italy could claim half of Europe, as the descendants of the old Roman Empire. Where is the boundary line after this? All that being said, we do applaud the German government of waiting for an investigation into this matter, rather than attempting to push the matter.

12

Monday, July 7th 2008, 9:42pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
Italy is concerned by the precedent set if moves were put into place to reform the Sudetenland with Germany. Why stop there? Why not take back the Tyrol which is mixed German-Italian area, or Alsace-Lorraine? For that matter, theres a lot of Italians in South-East France, why shouldn't Italy get that bit?


Denmark is likewise concerned with this possibility.
Would it mean the eventual occupation of the border regions of all nations with land borders with Germany, or the German emmigrant communities in Canada and The US, or should it mean that the territiories lost by Denmark to the Germans (read Prussians) in the past will be returned to us? Or should we regain all the lands held by the Vikings, or those portions of Nordmark that were under the Danish crown in the past?

This is a can of worms that History will NOT forgive us for opening!

Kaiser Kirk

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13

Wednesday, July 9th 2008, 3:37am

Viscount Eyskens, Belgian Delegate to the League of Nations :

Gentlemen, I wish to note that our esteemed German delegate has not ventured forth the possibility of seizing part of the ancient Bohemian kingdom on behalf of the descendants of German migrants. Under League rules, only the Mother Country of a minority ethnic group is entrusted to raise such issues on their behalf. Germany has merely observed a disparity and potential problem in the economic status of the Germanic minority. My esteemed colleague has even allowed that Germany is willing to be proactive and seek to alleviate the economic distress of the Bohemian border realm.

I hazard that with this attention being brought to this issue, the Czechoslovak government can identify means by which these issues can be addressed. Given the origins of the Czechoslovak state, the League has a particular interest in its success, and I would hope members of the League are willing to render aid to the Czechoslovak government if needed. I do not imagine any truly wish League intervention on issues that should be internally resolvable.

(1) The Belgians may not be the greatest fans of the Germans, but they are not seeking demonize them either.

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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14

Saturday, July 19th 2008, 6:23pm

Kongo League of Nations Delegate : Count Muata Ansika

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I have heard the debate and the concerns stated. As my time at Linden did not include studies of postwar European politics, I found it necessary to review the establishment of the Czechoslovak state, only to find that it is an example. once again, of a country created by committee, albeit with some consideration to history.

I am rather of the impression that this august assemblage is failing to recognize the basic flaw in the Czechoslovak legal approach here. This is not a discussion regarding history or borders, but one regarding the treatment which a League-created country of its citizenry.

Ths new country was not created from the ruins of Austria-Hungary for the aggrandizement of the Czech people alone, all peoples within the new nation should be citizens. Drawing on the principles of the French enlightenment, would that not make the rights of those citizens of Germanic descent the same as those of Czech descent and make the preferential hiring of peoples of Czech descent a violation of the Minority Treaty between Czechoslovakia and the League?

15

Friday, January 9th 2009, 12:11pm

[OK, it's now about 1 game-year later, plenty of time for a LoN investigation to be completed. What's the Czech reaction? Are certain biased and targeted laws changed, being changed, being held up as pillars of the Czech state?]

16

Friday, January 9th 2009, 12:18pm

OOC: Dont touch my main supplier of arms! :D

17

Friday, January 9th 2009, 12:25pm

[Heh, well, be happy: Pilsen, where Skoda's headquartered, is outside the Sudetenland borders, so they SHOULD be OK. Unless, of course, there's a war.]

18

Friday, January 9th 2009, 5:16pm

OOC, I'd strongly prefer to say that international pressure has nudged the Czechs into changing the relevant laws for the better. IC, only Bulgaria would have a strong opinion about the precedents a border-adjustment would set; theoretically it could be in Bulgaria's favor to set the precedent... or it could be very, very, NOT in her favor to do so. Bulgaria's current operational premise is:
- If somebody starts an offensive war, their borders aren't protected from victor's justice;
- If both parties agree mutually to move borders (ie the agreement Germany has with Lithuania)

19

Friday, January 9th 2009, 5:30pm

The real question is how well does the Czech government respond to outside pressure: ie, do they fall in line and change their ways, or do they get their back up and tell the LoN to take a hike? The latter is, unfortunately, a fairly common reaction to an international body trying to tell a nation what to do within it's own borders (see Darfur, Zimbabwe, etc for current examples).

In the end, it will likely depend on what the UK, France, and Russia (possibly the Italians and Dutch as well) tell the Czechs: if they tell the Czechs that they need to change the laws and won't do anything to stop the Germans if the Germans take action if the Czechs don't change their ways, the Czechs (as historical) will buckle. If those outside powers don't tell the Czechs that (or the Czechs get mixed messages), they'll likely continue on the path they were on up through 1935.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Hrolf Hakonson" (Jan 9th 2009, 5:45pm)


20

Friday, January 9th 2009, 5:42pm

So far I can see the Czechs as worried. In WW they were ready to go to war with Poland for Teschen but were forced to accept a compromise due to German-led League intervention. Now the League is forcing to change their laws in some thier provinces.

If I was the Czech government I start to get worried. First Teschen, now Sudeteland. What will be next? How it will stop? They either change their laws and prepare for the next nation trying to get something from them or say the buck stops here.

The problem is the same was occuring in Teschen; Polish minority being abused by Czech majority but Poland took the wrong approach and almost caused war; IIRC OTL treaty with France still on effect plus IIRC Russia also offered their help. Still in 5 years the region must likely vote to join Poland in a referendum mandated by the agreement.

Germany is taking the right approach but IMO the Czech will change the laws to try not to have a repeat of Teschen.