WesWorld

Marinha Imperial
1935 Fourth Quarter Report
1 Oct-31 December

A. Factories
7/7 factories = 10,500t of material + 0t stockpiled =10,500t available
10,500t are used and 0t transferred, leaving a stockpile of 0t.

0/7 factories (committed) = 0.0 infrastructure pts +
0/7 factories (flexible) = 0.0 pts = 0.0 pts available

B. Infrastructure Development

None

C. Naval Development and Construction

at Rio de Janeiro:
S3: CL-19 Mosqueteiro receives 1,750t, balance 8,803t
S1: idle
S1: idle
S1: idle
S1: idle
D3: CL-20 Almirante Abreu receives 1,750t, balance 9,036t
D3: CL-18 Piqueiro receives 1,750t, balance 6,653t
Dockside: CL-17 Almirante Tamandaré receives 1,750t, balance 2,463t
Dockside: CL-16 Almirante Barroso receives 1,750t, balance 2,463t
Dockside: CL-15 Esgrimista receives 1,750t, balance 4,592t

at Macapa:
S1: idle
S1: idle
S1: idle
S1: idle
S0: idle
D1: idle
D0: idle

at Manaus:
S0: idle
S0: idle
D0: idle
D0: idle

Commercial shipyards:
idle

D. Transactions

none

E. Other Notes

CL-14 Sagitério finished shakedown cruise this quarter

CL-19 Mosqueteiro laid down this quarter

CL-20 Almirante Abreu laid down this quarter

F. Scrappage Report

None

G. Updated Order of Battle, 31 December 1935

Note: completed (under repair/refit) + under construction

Battleships 2(0)+0
Coastal Battleships 0(0)+0
Battlecruisers 2(0)+0
Light Cruisers 3(0)+6
Destroyers 23(0)+0
Submarines 9(0)+0
Gunboats 5(0)+0
Minelayers 1(0)+0
Submarine Tender 1(0)+0
Collier 1(0)+0
Training Ship 1(0)+0

Quoted

Originally posted by Fyrwulf
E. Other Notes

CL-14 Sagitério finished shakedown cruise this quarter

This is hardly possible.

According to Swamphen´s Q1/34 report posted 04.03.2007 the ship was laid down on Jan 15 with a light displacement of 9924ts. Swamphen also provided a picture and complete stats for that CL.

Double checking that with the Brazilian encyclopedia shows you´ve completely re-designed the class in mid-game without notice and not using our rules for re-designs. The new light displacment is also above the original and requires anoher month of building time (I copied the data as currently in the encyclopedia below).

This original data would result in July 35 for completion and Feb 36 for finishing shakedown cruises. Prio to that date a use of that CL is hardly possible without negative effects. The new design would be at hand a month later (building 11+9 and 6 month trials).

I strongly recommend to switch back to the original data for this and all other designs you´ve modified. Such modifications in mid-game cannot be accepted. Every player here has to be able to rely on the data posted!

I further expect every report to be re-calculated since Swamphen left. That may require a lot of digging through old posts and some number crunching but is your job wen taking over Brazil. All reports have to comply to our rules. Full stop.

I hope there are no other surprises yet to be found...

-----------------------------------
Sagiterio as poste currently:

MIBN Sagitério, Empire of Brazil Light Cruiser laid down 1934

Displacement:
10,903 t light; 11,328 t standard; 12,201 t normal; 12,900 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
614.11 ft / 600.00 ft x 68.60 ft x 20.75 ft (normal load)
187.18 m / 182.88 m x 20.91 m x 6.32 m

Armament:
16 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (4x4 guns), 120.00lbs / 54.43kg shells, 1934 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1934 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,111 lbs / 958 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.50" / 140 mm 390.00 ft / 118.87 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.25" / 57 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 0.75" / 19 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.25" / 83 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 79,763 shp / 59,503 Kw = 30.50 kts
Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,572 tons

Complement:
579 - 754

Cost:
£4.433 million / $17.730 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 238 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 3,012 tons, 24.7 %
- Belts: 903 tons, 7.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 425 tons, 3.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,649 tons, 13.5 %
- Conning Tower: 34 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,295 tons, 18.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,158 tons, 42.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,298 tons, 10.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,288 lbs / 7,842 Kg = 161.3 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0.98
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 17.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 95 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 73
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.25 ft / 9.22 m
- Forecastle (17 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarterdeck (17 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Stern: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Average freeboard: 22.56 ft / 6.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.7 %
Waterplane Area: 27,424 Square feet or 2,548 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 586 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.01
- Longitudinal: 1.69
- Overall: 1.06
Caution: Poor stability - excessive risk of capsizing
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I hardly "modified" the design. I refer you to this thread, dated 05/07/07, which is the SS3 version. That version was copied data point for data point from the SS2 version on my Alienware. If Swampy used one of the preliminary designs I had sent him, that's not my issue. The final design that I had decided on displaced over 10,000 tons. I don't have any 9,000 ton version, on this computer or my Alienware.

However, my bad on the shakedown cruise, I read the duration as 6 weeks.

EDIT: By the by, I don't appreciate the implication of cheating. It's not called for, especially not when your "proof" is based on work that I did personally (the spring style) or commissioned (the art). Swampy made an honest mistake, is all. So what I'll do is I'll go back from Q1 (posting the correct version, since I can't edit Swampy's post) and then redo every other quarter I'd done since. Again.

With all due respect that design was posted on the warship projects board, which has nothing to do with this sim which is in real time. So far the "official" design is the one Swampy posted, it was the one posted in IC mode so unfortunately thats the one you have to work with.

We can't start making exception like this, otherwise I'd be able to simply modify the shell weights of my Memnons because of my error not editing them in the SS file, and others could do the same.

That example is apples to oranges. You have control over what designs are built since nobody else has controlled Atlantis. I had no idea that Swampy was going to take over Brazil and that when he did he would make what is, to my mind, a minor error. He believed the design study he had was the last word where the Saggies were concerned, which is patently not correct. I believe Rooi can back me up on that, since he helped me with improving the Saggie to what I have had since before Swampy even took control.

As far as Swampy and IC actions are concerned, there are a few things he's done that contradicted what I had laid out for Brazil. In general they are minor things, such as his using Emperor Palpatine as the ruler of Brazil rather than Empress Isabella II. That happened because Swampy wasn't aware that I had constructed an entire family tree. No big deal, but I don't feel the need to be bound to his minor errors.

As I said before, I have no issues with going back and correcting everything from Q1/34 on. It's a minor issue to me and truly nothing of any effort.

Fyrwulf had control of Brazil, then Swamphen, now Fyrwulf again. You can't just ignore the bit in between. When Swamphen was in control he wasn't bound to follow your plans. From the thread Hooman linked to, you comment on the design favourably and then add this;

Quoted

*shrugs* Well, I've already told Swampy he's free to modify the design as he likes.

Now that it is being built, the design can only be altered by the rules. This means rebuilding the hull on the slips (75% because of the barbette changes) and then finishing it.

Theres a huge difference between the ships currently posted. One has 9x6" guns, and the other has 16x6" guns in addition to being considerably heavier.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
When Swamphen was in control he wasn't bound to follow your plans.

I think this sums it up pretty good.

Nobody forced you to bail out when you played Brazil. It was your own decision with all consequences. Now, when you decided to come back before asking anybody, you have to live with what happened meanwhile. If you don´t agree we surely find another player for Brazil....

Zitat:

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
When Swamphen was in control he wasn't bound to follow your plans.



I think this sums it up pretty good.

Nobody forced you to bail out when you played Brazil. It was your own decision with all consequences. Now, when you decided to come back before asking anybody, you have to live with what happened meanwhile. If you don´t agree we surely find another player for Brazil....

That's what i think, too. Sorry, but leaving the sim was your decision, as Hoomy said, WITH ALL CONSEQUENCES !!!
So you have now to get with Brazil AS IT IS and not as YOU WOULD LIKE IT !!!! That means, take it or leave it !

There are a lot of people here that are playing countries that they didn't start.

Take Iberia
....Started by Lord Arpad
....Gifted to me when he left
....Passed to RAM when RealLife got in my way
....Taken over by me when RAM disappeared

So far, I have had to fill the years that LA missed out on,
then correct the errors (overspending) that RAM did.

I have received "stick" from certain quarters for not having the Iberian Encyclopedia complete,
but as LA had "a bit of a barney" when he left and deleted most of his work,
I consider it to be unfair for me to design ships to replace his,
as they will not be the same as those originally designed.

So, as I see it, if a player leaves his country, and someone else takes it over, the new player has to take on the previous incumbants work, warts and all.

If the creator then returns to his country, he would have to take on the second players work, warts and all.

Previous tenure counts for nought

Fyrwulf, I am sorry if you find this situation aggrevious, but it's what several others have had to accept before now.