Artillery Question

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Vukovlad

Me too !!!

Posts: 4,137

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 12:27am

Artillery Question

How complicated would it be to take the 130mm DP guns favored by the IPN and convert them to field artillery?

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Brockpaine

The Shadow

Posts: 15,109

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 12:37am

As I understand it, they wouldn't be very useful as field artillery. Naval guns have higher velocity, meaning flatter trajectory, which makes them poor choices for field artillery.

Someone more knowledgeable than I might correct that assumption, though.

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Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

Posts: 3,605

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 1:21am

Naval guns tend to have high MV, longer barrels and generally greater weights than their land based counterparts. However they can be put on land based carriages. WWI saw this happen with a number of larger French and German guns to provide stop gap heavy artillery. I would think you could find a suitable 155mm gun carriage and put the 130mm in it.
A weapon close in size and MV- and thus overall weight is likely the german 128mm AAG, though the 130mm would of course be a tad heavier :
128mm AAG

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AdmKuznetsov

Sage

Posts: 2,918

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 1:38am

Depends on where you use it.

For general fire support, their calibre is probably too high. A howitzer is what you want for that.

However, they would do nicely in a Corps-level artillery brigade in the counterbattery mission. Some sound ranging and flash ranging equipment in your TAB and you're good to go.

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Vukovlad

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Posts: 4,137

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 2:38am

How about using the Skoda K 149mm carriage (the K1 was used by Persia in OTL)?

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Vukovlad

Me too !!!

Posts: 4,137

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 3:10am

Or simply copy the stats for the Soviet M-46?

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Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

Posts: 3,605

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 3:20am

Heh, hard to say

Best I can think of is to use kinetic energy to see if the two weapons generate similar recoil - speed ^2 x shell mass I believe.

That Skoda fired a 42kg shell at 580m/s.
The Persian 130mm fires a 30kg shell. The MV on the French 130mm DP was 840m/s, so lets say thats the Mv.

So to produce the same kinetic energy as the 149mm, that 130mm shell would only have a MV of 686m/s,

Hunting around, if you have an 8" how chassis about, those all look all 'safe'- even the British 8" to 7.2" conversion

If you don't, either Persia alone or with SATSUMA assist should be able to make a carriage- maybe use the Italian Obice da 210/22 as a baseline?

Oh, and for an example of the difference in weights between guns and howitzers, the German 150mm FH 18 comes in at 5612kg in action, while the 150mm Kanone 18 was put on the same chassis (but was overweight and had to be disassembled for transport) and ran 12,460kg in action- over twice the amount. Great range though

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Vukovlad

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Posts: 4,137

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 3:35am

Well the M-46 seems the easiest way to go but the question is how to calculate range the M-46 being 50 cal and the Persian 130 DP being 45? Are there any Artillery Sharp?

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Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

Posts: 3,605

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 3:55am

The closest that I know is "BigGun"
For a 130mm gun firing a 30kg shell at 840m/s you get a 19,700m range at 45 degrees.

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thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

Posts: 13,513

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 3:57am

Theres "Big gun", IIRC its on the same site as Sprinsharp. I'm not sure how well it sims artillery peices though.

*looks up*

It looks like Kirk beat me too the answer.

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Vukovlad

Me too !!!

Posts: 4,137

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 4:04am

So how about this

Persian 130mm M-57 (Developed by Skoda)

Weight 7.7 t
Length 11.08 m
Width 2.45 m
Crew 8
Caliber 130 mm
Breech Horizontal sliding wedge
Carriage M-57
Elevation -2.5° to 45°
Traverse 50°
Rate of fire 6 (normal)
8 (burst)
5 (sustained)
Muzzle velocity 840 m/s
Maximum range 19.6 km

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Vukovlad" (May 18th 2008, 4:04am)

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Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

Posts: 3,605

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 4:18am

Now we are in the realm of 'fuzzy' evaluation. Looking at one weapon vs. another and guessing. I'm guessing +1-2 tonnes weight and -1 round/min. Gets it more in line with what the Soviet 122mm had.
Other than that, pretty nice

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Kaiser Kirk" (May 18th 2008, 4:22am)

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Vukovlad

Me too !!!

Posts: 4,137

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 4:26am

Seems reasonable but the range seems short compared to the A-19

Persian 130mm M-57 (Developed by Skoda)

Weight 8.7 t
Length 11.08 m
Width 2.45 m
Crew 8
Caliber 130 mm
Breech Horizontal sliding wedge
Carriage M-57
Elevation -2.5° to 55°
Traverse 50°
Rate of fire 5 (normal)
6 (burst)
4(sustained)
Muzzle velocity 840 m/s
Maximum range 21 km

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Vukovlad" (May 18th 2008, 5:10am)

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Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

Posts: 3,605

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 5:05am

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Seems reasonable but the range seems short compared to the A-19

You are correct. A-19 fires a 25kg shell at 800m/s, a 30kg at 840m/s should go further all things being equal. Both are close to SS's default weights so mass /cross section isn't it.

Since I had not shut down BigGun, I gave it another shot, but using a more advanced 1.1 shell form instead of the 1.0. That gave a range of 21,100 at 45 degrees- a decent improvement which puts it rightfully beyond the A-19.

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Vukovlad

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Posts: 4,137

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 5:10am

Edited to 21 Km

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Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

Posts: 7,019

Sunday, May 18th 2008, 10:40am

For recoil you use momentum change instead of kinetic energy change. You then use kinetic energy to find out how much energy it needs to dissipate in order to bring the recoiling barrel to a stop.

projectile weight * projectile velocity = (recoiling) gun weight * velocity

I'd simply just alter the stats of antoher gun slightly rather than play around with big gun. The difference between 50-cal and 45-cal for the same shell weight, maybe a 50m/s difference with a 500-1000m reduction in range.

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