WesWorld

I can see why India would like carriers, but for different reasons than those outlined above. The Indian Ocean has a lot of space in it and airborne reconnaissance is currently the only feasible way to locate a target. Carriers do the job better than seaplanes and have a limited strike role. I'd very much see it as the carriers locate and slow in order for other Indian forces to converge. They can kill outright some ships but thats more a bonus than anything else.

For patrol duties in the Indian Ocean I favour floatplane carriers over standard carriers. Floatplanes can ditch and pick up or deliver something and in case of emergency during a long flight the crews have at least a chance to land, be found and survive.

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Originally posted by HoOmAn
For patrol duties in the Indian Ocean I favour floatplane carriers over standard carriers. Floatplanes can ditch and pick up or deliver something and in case of emergency during a long flight the crews have at least a chance to land, be found and survive.

I'm not sure its the best choice for the 1930s as aircraft has got to the point where they are reasonably reliable. A conventional aircraft will have far better performance than a floatplane. For landing and picking something up, catapult launched floatplanes don't have much payload or space. Thats where a big flying boat comes in.

There is already floatplane bases in the Maldives and Diego Garcia. The reason of the carriers is two fold; to attrition an enemy fleet and for raiding operations. Also with capital ships pretty much being banned by the Karachi/Australian agreements the carrier is beginning to take the lead in the mind of the strategist as the way to cause casualties to an advancing enemy. A 18000t ship for a 35000+ ships is a nice tradeoff.

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Originally posted by perdedor99
“…Bharat strategists recognized their fleet couldn’t stand up to the combined fleets of the European powers, their fleet being designed to weaken European reinforcements entering the Indian Ocean; with the Japanese and other Satsuma nations’ fleets given the coup d’grace…

Um... the way this is phrased, I just somehow get this weird mental picture of a naval speed-bump.

Out of curiosity, the last time I looked, two of India's three battleships were deployed rather more east than west. Is this in the expectation that India's "attrite the European invaders" focus is made more towards the DEI and the straits in that region? The addition of carriers on that front, and the recent landing-ship focus, could indicate a strategy of seizing DEI islands under carrier air cover as a means of area denial?

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Originally posted by Brockpaine
[...] The addition of carriers on that front, and the recent landing-ship focus, could indicate a strategy of seizing DEI islands under carrier air cover as a means of area denial?

I don´t see that scenario. It would cost the Indians the Seychelles and their naval base there instantly and open up their southern front for all the nasty things that could come that way.

India vs. NEI is often discussed but (hopefully) will never happen.

Bharat doesn't had the capabilities to actually invade the DEI but one of the operations in the war games is to capture the Nicobar islands to get air bases to create problems to the Dutch in Sumatra and the British in Malaya.

The Seychelles and Diego Garcia are most likely to fall in case of war but the islands already have strong air complements there to attack shipping; the idea is to make any enemy advance waste time taking them while the main event is occuring further East. That another reason to keep a small naval base and air bases in Hedjaz; make the enemy waste time in secondary targets while the Japanese-Chinese-Filipino forces go for the main event.

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Originally posted by HoOmAn

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Originally posted by Brockpaine
[...] The addition of carriers on that front, and the recent landing-ship focus, could indicate a strategy of seizing DEI islands under carrier air cover as a means of area denial?

I don´t see that scenario. It would cost the Indians the Seychelles and their naval base there instantly and open up their southern front for all the nasty things that could come that way.

India vs. NEI is often discussed but (hopefully) will never happen.

*Shrug* I just recall the last time I looked at India's force deployment, the majority of it was deployed on the eastern side of India, and it seemed to include the newest ships. I was basically asking how the force deployment reflected Indian "Speedbump/carrier raiding" naval strategy.

IMHO, India's in the tightest spot of any SATSUMA power. Persia can use her oil to buy her way out of trouble if necessary; Japan's as strong as most European powers; the Philippines may be the corner of SATSUMA but they have virtually the entire Pacific as a moat; and China has a ring of allies everywhere but north (and there, geographical considerations would favor a defensive war). India, however, is a front-line target for any anti-SATSUMA moves, because it's the only real SATSUMA power on the Indian Ocean. If SAER activates, I'd give the Indian Navy three months, and Japan will be too busy elsewhere to come to their rescue.

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Originally posted by perdedor99
Bharat doesn't had the capabilities to actually invade the DEI but one of the operations in the war games is to capture the Nicobar islands to get air bases to create problems to the Dutch in Sumatra and the British in Malaya.

The Seychelles and Diego Garcia are most likely to fall in case of war but the islands already have strong air complements there to attack shipping; the idea is to make any enemy advance waste time taking them while the main event is occuring further East. That another reason to keep a small naval base and air bases in Hedjaz; make the enemy waste time in secondary targets while the Japanese-Chinese-Filipino forces go for the main event.

Actually, that kinda would go with my line of thinking. The carriers and Bharat's island chains form something of a perimeter.

Didn't know Hedjaz had an air and naval base. Is that new, or did I just miss it?

India have one of the largest land armies in the world but I agree that in the Naval sense they will eventually be brushed aside. I also agree they are the one with more to lose in this war.

That is the reason of the construction of a land pipeline from Persia to Bharat for example; the General Staff recognizes their position of inferiority and the possible end of the Naval campaign. The expectations are for Japan and the other nations to take out the DEI as soon as possible and come to the aid of Bharat.

The disposition of forces would be more obvious during the 1938 and later reports.

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Originally posted by Brockpaine

Actually, that kinda would go with my line of thinking. The carriers and Bharat's island chains form something of a perimeter.

Didn't know Hedjaz had an air and naval base. Is that new, or did I just miss it?

I mention it on passing before but that is the reason for keeping that small contingents there. Speed bumps on the Red Sea; force the enemy to waste resources taking that bases, use land based bombers to harass reinforcements, mine approaches, etc.

Having one of the largest army's in the world means squat if the bulk of that force is of average or poor quality troops. It would be difficult to find the resources and money to equip all of Indias forces with top notch weapons.

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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Having one of the largest army's in the world means squat if the bulk of that force is of average or poor quality troops. It would be difficult to find the resources and money to equip all of Indias forces with top notch weapons.

That's why half the Army is a New Model 36 Type. Read the Imperial Army thread. They lack artillery and more modern weapons but make for nice cannon fodder and defensive forces while the more mobile units are kept in reserve for offensive operations

I'm more thinking that, once they lose their sea-power, India's massive armies aren't actually that efficient. Without ships they can't reach the DEI, nor the Arabian Peninsula to reinforce Hedjaz; the best they can do is prop up Persia on the northern, western, and southern fronts, and hope they can take Burma and Siam by land before SAER reinforces. In short, India has the age-old Asian problem of putting troops into the enemy's home theatre for decisive battle.

...waitaminute. The map says the Seychelles are SAE, not Indian.

Right the Maldives is the islands in question. But the point is that after taking out our Navy we will make costly any attempt to land troops in Bharat.

In regard to the land operations you are pretty much on the money of all we can do. And hope for the Japanese/Chinese juggenaut.

My fault, I mixed those islands with no map at hand. Diego Garcia also cannot be hold in case of war, me thinks.

However, I think the Indian main land is pretty save. The average troop might not be elite but all it needs is to prevent an enemy to great a stable beach head - and here lots of troops come in handy, no matter of their quality. I don´t see any alliance or single power in WesWorld with the capabilities of a D-Day and even then the defenders would fight for their own soil. Not like in France where the Resistance also did their job.

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Originally posted by HoOmAn
My fault, I mixed those islands with no map at hand. Diego Garcia also cannot be hold in case of war, me thinks.

However, I think the Indian main land is pretty save. The average troop might not be elite but all it needs is to prevent an enemy to great a stable beach head - and here lots of troops come in handy, no matter of their quality. I don´t see any alliance or single power in WesWorld with the capabilities of a D-Day and even then the defenders would fight for their own soil. Not like in France where the Resistance also did their job.

I have to agree 100%. Plus in the WW political realm the possibility has already being hinted that the SAE not being too happy about changes in the Indian Ocean occurring. Even a declaration by the SAE that their fleet will join the struggle if mainland India is to be attacked could suffice to cool off hot heads in SEAR's General Staffs.

Trying to launch a D-Day worrying about your LOC is a non-winning situation.

November 2nd 1936- Day Three of Hammer 36 Exercises

"Lets go, you damned slackers!" shouted Lt. Amagi as he kicked the sleeping tankists awake in the darkness of the night. "This is the time to attack!" he shouted, causing everyone in the area who was still half asleep to snap upright, fully awake, as they frantically began to pull on their tanker coveralls.

As his men dressed, Amagi went back into his ad-hoc small living space on the turret of his vehicle and he began to pull on his own uniform, with the little bronze tank being the only thing that showed that he was a tank crewman. After finishing with his uniform he put on the padded helmet of a tank crewman. Walking outside his vehicle, he saw that his men were for the most part, ready.

"Alright, lets go!" he shouted, leading them outside to the small communal area, where the rest of the battalion was forming up, some 140 men standing at attention after the men of his platoon joined them.

Out in front of them was their commander, Lt. Colonel Hideki Matsumoto, pacing back and forth. When everyone was assembled and standing at attention, Matsumoto came to attention and began to address them.

"Servants of the Emperor! Just hours ago, our comrades of the 17th Tank Battalion (1) fought a gallant action against superior forces and gave more than they took. Thanks to their efforts the Indian armored columns are still on the way instead of being part of the efforts to dislodge the air transported personnel fighting in Suma!"

Matsumoto paused for effect. "Already we have received reports are coming in that our Chinese allies are facing again the Indian Armored force in an attempt to further slow them down and allow us to defeat the forces attacking the defenders of Suma."

"Well, that is exactly what we will do! We are going to push them out of Suma and show them what the Imperial Japanese Army is made off!" shouted Matsumoto, to the enormous cheers of his men.

"Mount your tanks, comrades!" he finished, and everyone broke off to run towards their tank. Within minutes, the air was filled with the low rumbling noises as their engines came to life, filling the air with their sooty exhaust. Further to the sides the same scene was being repeated as the commanders of the other tank battalion assigned to this force gave a similar speech to his men. (2)

As Amagi scrambled up the dark green hull of his command tank, he saw that no one was moving at all, just idling in the night. Dropping into the turret, he crouched past the breech block of the 57mm gun, and kicked the radio operator softly with his boot to get his attention.

"What's the damned holdup?"

The radioman threw his hands up in disgust in response. "Sir, we have being ordered to wait for a preparatory artillery barrage to mask our advance."

"That makes sense. The enemy still doesn’t know we are this close. Very well, tell the rest of the crew to be ready to go.” ordered Amagi. "We are ready, Sir." came the reply seconds later.

Suddenly, the sound of artillery filled the air, the Japanese artillery battalion supporting this force preparing the way for their tanks and infantry to hit the flank of the Indian force assaulting Suma. As one the rumbling of vehicles moving forward started, the Indian cavalry unit covering the flank of the Indian forces attacking Suma unaware of what was coming their way.

(1)The medium tank battalion “destroyed” in one of the earlier entries.
(2)One medium tank battalion and a light tank battalion plus ten Japanese infantry battalions are attacking.

Keep up the good work!

November 2nd 1936- Day Three of Hammer 36 Exercises

Suddenly, in the distance, a low throbbing noise could be heard over the rumble of artillery. "That's probably our armored units," Daffadar Singh remarked. Amit Yadit listened for several moments more before replying.

"No, they're not. They're coming from the wrong way, everyone get ready!" he shouted, and all over the improvised headquarters for the Indian Cavalry Brigade covering the right flank of the Green Force advance into Suma the radiomen reached for their grenades and Kanpur 32’s, while next door, the first floor windows flew open and half-clothed troopers spilled out into the streets, clutching their IRF-36 rifles and running for their prepared fighting positions.

Outside the Village

The Japanese grunts marched along the highway, towards the enemy positions, and as they reached the outskirts, they slowed down and crouched down as they observed the black smoke trailing off into the sky from the continuous advance of the Green Forces into Suma, an advance that now is close to a day long. News that the Chinese troops have being pushed into the Japanese Vulture positions and if this attack fails they will be considered defeated inspired the troops to do their best.

As the Noncoms ran through the ranks shouting encouragement to the men, the rough Japanese grunts nervously smoked the cheap cigarettes that they received at each mealtime, and chatted
amongst themselves. Many of them were tired after the long road march to Suma, but the desire to defeat the enemy was strong.

As the Japanese battalions surrounded the village in a crescent pattern, frenzied preparations were
undertaken with the characteristic Japanese devotion towards work, with the promise that once the enemy was defeated, they would rest.

Mortars were dug in and sited, while the Type 11’s and Type 95’s were carried forward to form an initial base of fire while the heavy Type 90’s were brought forward on their sledges.

While the infantry was preparing for the battle to come, the tank battalions attached to this assault rumbled forward, some of the vehicles stopping to cover the advance of the light tanks with their guns blazing in the direction of the enemy.

Brigadier General Hideki Tetsu was responsible for this hastily formed taskforce, and he studied the village carefully as he tried to figure out the best way of assaulting the village and dislodging the Indian troops from the village. Winning this battle was a matter of honor, and more importantly, his own personal career would benefit of a good review of his performance. So far his column has being the only one that had reached the village, their Chinese competitors being detained by partisan activity and the other unit facing the advancing joint Persian-Indian armored units in an attempt to stop them before they reach Suma. (1)

Tetsu tried to make out the Indians' locations with the binoculars; they were damned sturdy, but worthless beyond a certain range. With a sigh, he put down the binoculars. The Indians were in there, hiding between the buildings of the village.

As evidence of this, a couple of what seems as antitank guns began to bark from the village.
Moments later a round hit a tank to his left, causing him to fall straight down into his staff car and order his driver to move as fast as he could.

As blood rushed to his head, he cursed in typical Japanese fashion, noticing the armor of his tanks wasn’t enough to resist the weak Indian antitank rounds at the ranges being fought, so he ordered the infantry battalions to rush forward to support the tanks.

A thousand meters away, Amit raised his rifle and waited for the incoming onslaught. Their tanks have a very flimsy armor, (2) he thought but he knew that it will not be the end of it.

Suddenly, the highway began to fill with explosions as 90mm mortar fire began to rain down from the woods surrounding the village. Yadit dove below
the window right away, so he avoided most of the shrapnel, but a radiomen next to him holding a SMG wasn't so lucky, and he went down to the floor, blood spurting from his arm when pieces of wood from a tree hit by a practice round turned into small needles and hit in. The medic in place for this eventuality immediately began checking the wound but pretty much this trooper was done for the day.

Still the explosions continued. "Shiva's breath, don't the Japs ever run out of ammo?" muttered Daffadar Singh. As Yadit and Singh both crawled along the floor towards the back door of the headquarters, the Type 90s opened up in interlocking fields of fire, raking the buildings with gunfire or at least that was the news from the refs.

Knocking the back door open with the butts of their rifles, both Amit and Singh crawled outside. "You'll have to carry me, Daffadar, I have being declared wounded by the damn refs." lamented Amit.

Nodding, Singh reached out and in one fluid motion, slung Amit over his back, and began to run away from the Headquarters, which was dangerously exposed to the Japanese gunfire. Several minutes later, he reached the medical station, where
everyone was regrouping, and everyone, even the “wounded”, was holding a weapon of some sort.

Lt Colonel Hideki Matsumoto watched as the Indians retreated under the heavy fire of the mortars and Type 90s were pouring into the outskirts of the village. He watched with glee as several of the Indians didn't make it, being rushed to the side after being declared casualties of the Japanese advance.

"Tankers forward!" he shouted on the radio and watched as the infantrymen supporting their advance also ran forward and some grasped the handrails which were welded onto the sides of his Type 90 tanks. (3) He lamented the casualties so far, the armor of the Type 86’s being so terrible that the enemy antitank guns pretty much decimated that part of his force at extreme ranges. But his Type 90’s were still on the fight and to his right the light tank battalion was also advancing at a nice clip but suffering casualties due to their weak armor.

Behind them, the other infantrymen supporting the battalion came forward, forming up in columns behind the Type 90’s, to use them as protection during the advance, and double-checked their Arisaka rifles.

"Banzai!" he shouted, the cry being picked up by the rest of his men, in that primeval chant of the Japanese soldier, and with a cloud of diesel smoke, they were off, advancing under the covering fire of the Type 90’s to their flanks.

As they advanced, Matsumoto noted that the Type 95’s machineguns squads advanced with them, carrying forth their guns and firing from the hip to keep up a base of fire on the Indian strongpoints. Suddenly, from the side of the road, an Indian antitank gun position appeared. Before they could fire, however, they were declared dead by the fire from the supporting light machineguns.

As his tank advanced forward, Matsumoto dropped into the turret to converse by radio with Brigadier General Tetsu several kilometers away, on the progress of the operation; this saved his life when machinegun rounds slammed into the side of the turret, “killing” the infantry riders, but failing to penetrate the Type 90s plating.

Ducking his head out of the cupola just far enough so he could see, Matsumoto spotted the offenders; a bunch of Indian manning a heavy machinegun from a window.

Before he could order his gunner to swing the turret around, the Type 90 behind him had already spoken with its 57mm gun, sending a spray of “canister” down into that area that left behind only “mangled flesh”.

Then all hell broke loose. It seemed that the Indians had been waiting for them in ambush, and that the impatient gunners of that machinegun had jumped the gun, soon the area around the tanks filled with flying lead as troopers were marched to the side as casualties in both sides.


Banzai!

With that traditional Japanese battlecry, Sergeant Atsuma led the troops of his rifle squad as they charged into the fury of the village, Arisakas and Thompsons chattering away at the Indians.

An Indian popped out of a doorway, firing his rifle wildly, and Atsuma “cut him down” with his Thompson, firing as fast as he could pull the trigger, and thanking his ancestors that he was carrying a Thompson instead of a bolt action rifle like the majority of his troopers.

As the Indian moved aside after being declared dead, Atsuma charged into the house where the Indian had popped out of, and saw an Indian officer turning on his direction. The officer raised his pistol and was “cut down” by the fire of Atsuma’s Thompson. Them the “dead” officer bowed and informed him that he just “killed” the commander of the 3rd Indian Cavalry Brigade.

Behind him, he heard the rest of his squad entering the house behind him. "Sergeant, what are you standing there for....." their voices trailing off as they saw the Indian talking to Atsuma in perfect Japanese.

“Tell the General the Indian commander is dead!"
Atsuma screamed, the cry passing through the ranks of the Japanese infantry, and as one, they surged forward, to defeat the rest of the cavalrymen, with one of the soldiers running on the opposite direction to give the news to the officer staff.

[The Medical Station]

"They're not stopping, Sir!" screamed one of the young soldiers to Amit while shooting out of the window. Despite the Bhandara 29’s pouring a wall of lead into the oncoming Japanese ranks, not one of them faltered, regardless of themounting “casualties”.

"FALL BACK!" shouted Amit as he “mowed down” a rank of Japs with his Kanpur 32 on full auto, emptying the magazine into the onrushing wall of khaki. The “bodies” piled up, but the Japanese kept on coming, like an elemental force, unstoppable, driven forward by sheer hatred.

And then they were at the Medical station, throwing “grenades” into the windows, and firing their guns into everyone, even the "critically wounded". It was during this one-sided "slaughter" that two Satyakis finally arrived, saving Amit's ever smaller group of cavalrymen from total annihilation with their 15mm machineguns firing straight down the throats of the Japanese.

"Jap tanks down the highway in platoon strength! Medium ones! Cover us while we withdraw!" Amit yelled to the lead Satyaki commander as he was carried past the personnel carriers by Singh, towards several trucks that they had captured from the
Chinese whose engines were already idling. Without a thought, Singh threw Amit into the back of the lead truck, ignoring the young man's cry of pain, while he went back to make sure everyone who could make it had made it.

At that moment, one of the Satyakis was hit by paint and declared destroyed by a 57mm round hit almost at point range, the Japanese tanks now on the
scene. Without waiting to see if the other Satyaki had “survived”, Singh ran back to the lead truck and jumped into the cab of the truck, shouting "S**t, the Japs are here already! Let save what we can! GO!" The driver complied and with the wail of gears being mangled, the truck lurched down the highway. The last truck was not so lucky however, taking a 57mm HE shell just as it was pulling away, “killing” everyone on board.

From the cupola of his tank, Lt. Colonel Matsumoto watched as the last of the trucks disappeared around a curve in the road and deeper into town. “Damnit, some of the Indian had gotten away”, he thought and he knew with his battalion in the shape it was he
couldn't pursue them.

Sighing, he climbed out of the turret and jumped to the ground. The surviving battalion officers and NCOs would be meeting with him soon, right now, cleanup
operations were underway, and from time to time, the rattle of a rifle or submachinegun was heard as the surviving Indian troops were forced to surrender.

[Green Force HQ; 6 hours later]

Colonel K. S. Thimayya sighed as he sat in the small table in his temporary Headquarters, the situation being fluid for the last hours. He had to stop his advance in the direction of the now joined Japanese-Chinese airborne troops to try to stop the attack to his flank by a Japanese force supported by tanks.

"Colonel, the latest reports," said a fresh faced young officer, who was part of the headquarters staff and hand him some pieces of paper. Nodding, Thimayya got the papers and began to shuffle thru them. The news he expected were of the arrival of the armored support, the news of their defeat of the Chinese-Japanese attempt to slow them down already know by everyone. To his great surprise, the news was of the arrival of a new Chinese force (4), a force that now straddles the communication lines with the expected armored troops. "Is this information correct?"

The young officer stood there and nodded. Thimayya got back to the papers, his situation now turning into a desperate one. "According to these reports, there were Chinese tanks, infantry and Marines in our rear, and those tanks are aimed in our direction. Do we have an estimate of how long it will take for General Singh’s force to arrive here?"

The young officer responded. "According to the forward scouts they are already facing the enemy armor but the lack of infantry support is hurting them."

With that, he pushed the papers away from him and made his decision, knowing full well that this signified the end of their attempt to defeat the airborne attack. "Stop any further attempts forward and order the Pushtighabans and surviving cavalry to try to hold off the attacking Japanese. All surviving Satyakis and members of the mechanized cavalry are ordered to attack the rear of the Chinese forces. We are breaking out. After we link up with our armor we will cover the retreat of the Persians. Do you understand my orders?"

"Yes, Colonel!" replied the young man, his face showing the emotion of knowing they lost.

At this time all over the radio it was announced this part of the exercise to be over. The Green Force failed in their attempt to recover the city but inflicting heavy casualties to their enemies. On the other hand the Orange Force achieved their link up but the casualties were indeed heavy and further analysis considered that the Green Force still could have chance to defeat Orange Force if more time would have being allowed.


(1) Colonel Feng’s Column.
(2) Amit has not see the Japanese new medium tanks yet.
(3) Spur of the moment field modification by Matsumoto.
(4) Colonel Feng’s Column again.