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101

Saturday, October 18th 2008, 1:41am

Persian Veles II, Iraqi border


102

Saturday, October 18th 2008, 1:53am

Airspeed is obviously 9.82 m/s^2. ;) :P :D

103

Saturday, October 18th 2008, 2:08am

Doesnt really belong here but it seemed stupid to start a new thread.

I am a bit surprised that no one else has posted their ideas and less serious projects

howard

Unregistered

104

Saturday, October 18th 2008, 4:55am

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Persian Veles II, Iraqi border



1. Bow machine gun is useless as it is set to far back. and carries the wrong kind of traverse mechanism,
2. Tracklaying mechanism is a sand grinder and a mud clogger./
3. Turret is set too far forward on hull making the tank a nose digger and bogger into soft ground.
4. Driver pistol port is a shoot me feature.
5. Commander's cupola is set too far back to either guide the tank, sightline targets, or to cover tank area security which is a primary, secondary and tertiary responsibilities for a tank commander.
6. Never mind the numerous shot traps I see.

H.

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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105

Saturday, October 18th 2008, 7:46am

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Doesnt really belong here but it seemed stupid to start a new thread.

I am a bit surprised that no one else has posted their ideas and less serious projects


For my part I don't do illustrations. The photoshopped LT-35 took way to long and still doesn't look quite 'right'. Much prefer your efforts.

As for posting other stuff, I could post up various rejected/not yet built springsharps, tanksharps and planebuilders but thats about it. And...oddly... I doubt that folks *really* want to see 11 slightly different versions of the S44 class Sloop.....

106

Saturday, October 18th 2008, 2:13pm

Quoted

Originally posted by howard

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Persian Veles II, Iraqi border
1. Bow machine gun is useless as it is set to far back. and carries the wrong kind of traverse mechanism,
2. Tracklaying mechanism is a sand grinder and a mud clogger./
3. Turret is set too far forward on hull making the tank a nose digger and bogger into soft ground.
4. Driver pistol port is a shoot me feature.
5. Commander's cupola is set too far back to either guide the tank, sightline targets, or to cover tank area security which is a primary, secondary and tertiary responsibilities for a tank commander.
6. Never mind the numerous shot traps I see.

H.


Lets look at a real project


I know that KMDB Morozov doent have your expertise but note the position of the Turret and cupola, this is the planned replacement for the obscure T-34

107

Saturday, October 18th 2008, 2:17pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad

For my part I don't do illustrations. The photoshopped LT-35 took way to long and still doesn't look quite 'right'. Much prefer your efforts.

As for posting other stuff, I could post up various rejected/not yet built springsharps, tanksharps and planebuilders but thats about it. And...oddly... I doubt that folks *really* want to see 11 slightly different versions of the S44 class Sloop.....


Shipdrawings are something I never got the hang on, I impressed by people that can take a SS and turn it to a picture and Photoshps are fun as well so dont be shy

108

Saturday, October 18th 2008, 3:57pm

Hull front plate machineguns are all of limited value, but in WWII tanks where the radio operator really needs to be a separate position from the driver, loader, gunner, and commander, it makes sense to give him a weapon to use.

The cupola/hatch at the back of the turret is quite common, see the well known Tiger and Panther for more examples.

howard

Unregistered

109

Saturday, October 18th 2008, 11:05pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad

Quoted

Originally posted by howard

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Persian Veles II, Iraqi border
1. Bow machine gun is useless as it is set to far back. and carries the wrong kind of traverse mechanism,
2. Tracklaying mechanism is a sand grinder and a mud clogger./
3. Turret is set too far forward on hull making the tank a nose digger and bogger into soft ground.
4. Driver pistol port is a shoot me feature.
5. Commander's cupola is set too far back to either guide the tank, sightline targets, or to cover tank area security which is a primary, secondary and tertiary responsibilities for a tank commander.
6. Never mind the numerous shot traps I see.

H.


Lets look at a real project


I know that KMDB Morozov doent have your expertise but note the position of the Turret and cupola, this is the planned replacement for the obscure T-34


That was the design bureau.The actual abortion known as the T-34M (successor to the T-34/76) was REJECTED for the very type reasons I mentioned.



If you look at the 3/4 aspect, you can see why.

The successor to the T-34/76 was the T-34/85 which plonked an improved KV turret onto a T-34 hull.



The true successor to the T-34 series was this joker.



Aside from the obvious "shoot me in the mantlet and blow me up feature" that's been the bane of most Russian tanks since the T-44, you can see why that tank was better than the T-34M.
1. Better cupola placement.
2. Better sloping and one unit glacis..
3. Only one shot trap.
4. Turret is centrally balanced on the hull with no nose digger tendency.

The T-34M abortion was designed in 1940 before the Russians learned the "Kharkov Lesson".

H.

howard

Unregistered

110

Saturday, October 18th 2008, 11:13pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Hull front plate machineguns are all of limited value, but in WWII tanks where the radio operator really needs to be a separate position from the driver, loader, gunner, and commander, it makes sense to give him a weapon to use.

The cupola/hatch at the back of the turret is quite common, see the well known Tiger and Panther for more examples.


The Tiger and the Panther had very high exposed cupulas, Hrolf, that were "shoot me here" aimpoints that were actual structural weakness in the turret armor protection scheme. Bad design forced upon you by the need to account for gun recoil travel is still bad design. Of course putting the tank commander to the left of the gun, and the loader to the right of the gun was also incredibly dumb, but why should I bring real Human ergonomics into this discussion?

H.

111

Saturday, October 18th 2008, 11:16pm

Read up again bubba, the A-43 was stopped because of the little tiff the Soviets had with some neighbours, didnt want to upset people by re-tooling.

112

Sunday, October 19th 2008, 1:21am

The T-43 was scrapped because it was less mobile than the T-34 due to its heavier armour. After Kursk the realisation that a larger gun, not heavier armour, was more urgently needed and that also contributed to its demise.

The T-43's Turret however was adapted to acomidate an 85mm gun and fitted to the T-34 hull.

113

Sunday, October 19th 2008, 1:35am

The T-43 and A-43 (sometimes called T-34M) are different tanks

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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114

Sunday, October 19th 2008, 2:00am

Cool down people and watch your tone. Thank you.

May I also remind you that THIS is the aircraft board?

howard

Unregistered

115

Sunday, October 19th 2008, 2:25am

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Read up again bubba, the A-43 was stopped because of the little tiff the Soviets had with some neighbours, didnt want to upset people by re-tooling.


i already knew you were going to write that nonsense, Vuko. Why don't you do a little more reading about a clown name Grigory Kulik, the Leslie McNair of the Soviet Union?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Kulik

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforu…8234/page1.aspx

I would be careful how I throw around "Bubba", Ruben. There I am "Herald 1234".

I can teach you the Russian history and the technology, if you want me to.

Howard.

howard

Unregistered

116

Sunday, October 19th 2008, 2:31am

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
The T-43 was scrapped because it was less mobile than the T-34 due to its heavier armour. After Kursk the realisation that a larger gun, not heavier armour, was more urgently needed and that also contributed to its demise.

The T-43's Turret however was adapted to acomidate an 85mm gun and fitted to the T-34 hull.


1. I don't think I showed you a T-43. I could swear that its a T-44/85.

2. I also believe that the tank turret was the one originally intended for the KV-3.

H.

117

Sunday, October 19th 2008, 3:52am

Quoted

Originally posted by howard

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Read up again bubba, the A-43 was stopped because of the little tiff the Soviets had with some neighbours, didnt want to upset people by re-tooling.


i already knew you were going to write that nonsense, Vuko. Why don't you do a little more reading about a clown name Grigory Kulik, the Leslie McNair of the Soviet Union?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Kulik

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforu…8234/page1.aspx

I would be careful how I throw around "Bubba", Ruben. There I am "Herald 1234".

I can teach you the Russian history and the technology, if you want me to.

Howard.


That Kulik was incompetent is hardly news but then the NKO and later GKO had final say . The A-43/T-34M was supposed to handle some of the problems perceived with the T-34 such as the Christie like suspension. Show me a serious source that claims the project was killed by nose dipping and shot traps and not just a link to where you are sprouting your nonsense. This probably better handled by PM from here.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Vukovlad" (Oct 19th 2008, 3:59am)


118

Sunday, October 19th 2008, 4:00am

Acctually it could have gone to PM land 4 posts ago.....

howard

Unregistered

119

Sunday, October 19th 2008, 5:01am

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad

Quoted

Originally posted by howard

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Read up again bubba, the A-43 was stopped because of the little tiff the Soviets had with some neighbours, didnt want to upset people by re-tooling.


i already knew you were going to write that nonsense, Vuko. Why don't you do a little more reading about a clown name Grigory Kulik, the Leslie McNair of the Soviet Union?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Kulik

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforu…8234/page1.aspx

I would be careful how I throw around "Bubba", Ruben. There I am "Herald 1234".

I can teach you the Russian history and the technology, if you want me to.

Howard.


That Kulik was incompetent is hardly news but then the NKO and later GKO had final say . The A-43/T-34M was supposed to handle some of the problems perceived with the T-34 such as the Christie like suspension. Show me a serious source that claims the project was killed by nose dipping and shot traps and not just a link to where you are sprouting your nonsense. This probably better handled by PM from here.



This will go to PM.

H.