WesWorld

Right now (summer, 1935), Germany is developing a number of new aircraft types that may supplement or replace some of the planes it currently has in service.

1 - The Ju-88 continues its historically long development, it's expected to join the Luftwaffe (finally) in 1936. As production ramps up with the A-4 models, production of the He-111 will start to ramp down.

2 - The He-100 continues it's WW development, and is likely to be put into production in 1936. It won't have evaporative cooling, instead the historical He-100D is used as the basis before WW modifications are made.

3 - The Fw-190 is also being developed and will likely make it into production. Production, though, will be delayed when BMW cancels the BMW-139 and Focke Wulf has to modify the design for the BMW-801.

4 - Between the He-100 and the Fw-190, the Bf-109 is unlikely (barring a war) to have as long a service life with the Luftwaffe as historical, the historical Bf-109F airframe is likely to be the end of the line for this design.

5 - Heavy bombers (the Ju-90S and the He-177) are in development, and prototypes will fly late in 1935 or early in 1936. These are both based around 4 BMW-139 engines, and any production will be delayed when the -139 is cancelled and replaced by the BMW-801. No current requirements exist calling for the heavy bombers to be dive-bombing capable, so they won't be.

6 - Dornier is developing the Do-217 as a new medium bomber to replace the He-111 and Do-17, but it won't really be successful until it gets BMW-801s in late 1936 and it likely won't be a priority for the Luftwaffe for a while after that (the He-111s will get the job done, and money is needed elsewhere).

7 - Junkers is working on a successor to the Ju-52 as a medium transport, not clear yet whether that will be the historical Ju-252, or something else.

8 - Junkers is working on a successor to the Ju-87, based on the historical EF-65/EF-82 projects (see here: http://www.geocities.com/hjunkers/ju_ef082_a1.htm ). The goofy Ju-187/287 (with it's rotating tail) is NOT being considered.

9 - Dornier is working on LARGE, long ranged flying boats, along the lines of the Do-214/216 projects. No current plans to produce them, but that could change.


Events in South America are suggesting that night fighters might be necessary, since it seems that the way to bomb your opponent might be to attack at night. Thought on this is just beginning, especially since there are no German radars suitable for mounting on aircraft yet, but the Ju-88 and Bf-110 airframes are likely candidates for any early nightfighters.


Engine-wise, Germany is cranking along historical lines.

Daimler-Benz is undecided about the DB-605 project, it might not happen in favor of further development (in terms of compression, supercharging, and methanol-water injection) of the DB-601 until it's eventual replacement by the DB-603. Work is also being done on the DB-604 X-engine.

BMW is already dubious about the prospects of the BMW-139, and a project has started that will result in the -801 very soon. Once that's done, work will begin on the BMW-802 and -803 engines, but the -803's prospects are a bit limited by its weight.

Junkers is working hard on getting a pressurized cooling system on the Jumo 211, they'll succeed with the Jumo-211F that will become available in 1937, and then work starts on the -213. In parallel, the diesel division is working on the historical Jumo-207 and (slowly) on the a-historical Jumo-209 (a two-row version of the Jumo-208 ) with Pratt & Whitney. Design work on the Jumo-222 "star" engine, which with the greater availability of lightweight alloys than historically may come to fruition sooner than historically. Work has also begun, as historical, on axial compression jet engines, the first will run in 1939.

Looks good, I'll do something similar with Italy later this afternoon after watching the rugby. Bath v. Falcons in town and then pile into a pub to watch England hammer the Scots.

Drat, forgot to add Argus and Heinkel to the engine development listing.

Argus Motoren is now, having completed work on the As-411, started an H-engine project based on two As-411s, straightened out (the -411 is a typical German inverted-V design), mounted atop one another and geared together. The resulting As-412 works when it's ready in late 1936, but like the fairly similar Napier Dagger suffers from cooling problems in the rear cylinders (its an aircooled engine and there's not enough cool air reaching them). This leads to a bifurcation in Argus' work: the aircooled H-engine line continues with the As-413, which is a 16 cylinder H-engine, also based on the As-411 and -412; and the As-414. which is a liquid cooled 24 cylinder H-engine that's based on the dimensions of the Junkers Jumo 211/213 series (this engine is the historical As-413, NOT the aircooled As-413 above).


Heinkel will hire Von Ohain in 1936 as historical, and currently his "garage engine" is running, though with development problems as is to be expected and as historical.

Late 1936 update:

1 - The Ju-88 continues its historically long development, it began to join the Luftwaffe (finally) in 1936. As production ramps up with the A-4 models, production of the He-111 is ramping down (there's only so much money to go around, and the level bomber force has gotten it's share for now).

2 - The He-100 continues it's WW testing, and is likely to be put into production in 1937.

3 - The Fw-190 is also being developed and will likely make it into production in 1937. There are still a few bugs to be worked out with the BMW-801, though, which will delay things a bit longer.

4 - The historical Bf-109F airframe is now flying (in prototype form) and likely to be the end of the line for this design. The -109F airframe will likely serve alongside the He-100 and Fw-190, and may also serve as the basis for the first real German carrier fighter.

5- Well, the heavy bomber projects continue, the Ju-90S and He-177 with BMW-801s will fly before the end of 1936 (if only barely).

6 - Dornier is developing the Do-217 as a new medium bomber to replace the He-111 and Do-17, but it won't really be successful until it gets BMW-801s in late 1936 and it likely won't be a priority for the Luftwaffe for a while after that (the He-111s will get the job done, and money is needed elsewhere).

7 - Junkers is going to start delivering the Ju-152, a successor to the Ju-52.

8 - Junkers is working on a successor to the Ju-87, based on the historical EF-65/EF-82 projects (see here: http://www.geocities.com/hjunkers/ju_ef082_a1.htm ). Probably won't be ready for production until at least 1938, as a successor to the Ju-87.

9 - Dornier is working on LARGE, long ranged flying boats, along the lines of the Do-214/216 projects. No current plans to produce them, but that could change.


Events in South America are suggesting that night fighters might be necessary, since it seems that the way to bomb your opponent might be to attack at night. Thought on this is just beginning, especially since there are no German radars suitable for mounting on aircraft yet, but the Ju-88 and Bf-110 airframes are likely candidates for any early nightfighters.


Engine-wise, Germany is cranking along historical lines (though there IS a push to develop more engines that take full advantage of the properties of 100 octane vs 87 octane fuel).

Daimler-Benz has decided not to bother with the DB-605 project in favor of further development (in terms of compression, supercharging, and methanol-water injection) of the DB-601 until it's eventual replacement by the DB-603. An early production model of the DB-601E are flying in the Bf-109 V22. Work is also being done on the DB-604 X-engine, and the DB-603 is roaring on the test bench (and might be a possible replacement for the BMW-801 on the heavy bomber projects if necessary).

BMW has canceled the BMW-139, and replaced it with the BMW-801. The -801 is running much better than the -139 ever did, but it's currently showing some cooling issues. Once that's fixed, work will begin on the BMW-802 and -803 engines, but the -803's prospects are a bit limited by its weight. Methanol-water injection work has shown promise, but also seems to wear out engines and the current engines appear powerful enough for general service use.

Junkers has completed development work on a pressurized coolant version of the Jumo 211, the Jumo-211E. It's working VERY well on the bench, so well it looks like a more powerful version can be developed from it, which will be the Jumo-211F that will become available in late 1937, and then work starts on the -213. In parallel, the diesel division has cancelled work on the historical Jumo-207, but continues (slow) work on the a-historical Jumo-209 (a two-row version of the Jumo-208 ) with Pratt & Whitney. Design work on the Jumo-222 "star" engine continues. Work has also begun, as historical, on axial compression jet engines, the first will run in 1939.

Argus Motoren is working on an H-engine project based on two As-411s, straightened out (the -411 is a typical German inverted-V design), mounted atop one another and geared together. The first prototype will be on the bench in early 1937.

Heinkel has hired Von Ohain in 1936 as historical, and currently his "garage engine" is running, though with development problems as is to be expected and as historical. Work on the Heinkel turbojets continues as historical.

Just want to point out that the EF 82 link is dead (error 582 unused)

For those interested: http://hugojunkers.pytalhost.com/ju_ef082_a1.htm

Hmmmm, worked for me. If it doesn't for you, try http://hugojunkers.pytalhost.com/ju_airc2.htm and then click on the Junkers EF082 entry.

Still get unused error but the alternative works

Quoted

Engine-wise, Germany is cranking along historical lines (though there IS a push to develop more engines that take full advantage of the properties of 100 octane vs 87 octane fuel).

I'm not sure that we have much of that lying around apart from some limited quantities produced by Shell for the Dutch. Having it available won't do a great deal for the power of the German engines apart from in continuous cruising power. MW injection is able to achieve far greater power increases. Then mechanical strengthening needs to come in. Increasing rpm and some alterations to improve supercharger efficiency are probably easiest. It should be possible to get up to around 1500hp with MW injection eventually.

DB603 is probably a good choice but I'm not sure about the 604 or other engines. Theres only so many things that can be developed at the same time.

The BMW 802 is probably the best choice of the rest as the problems with the Jumo 222 are just too severe.

With aircraft I'm not sure about the He-100 or Bf109. There isn't a great deal to choose from between the aircraft and the Bf109 is already in production. Both are competing for engines in short supply. Its not quite as rushed as historically but I feel there is most likely too much pressure to have both types in production.

100-octane aviation gasoline's available from Standard Oil as well, and the Fischer-Tropsch synthetic plants that have been in small scale production in WW Germany since the early 1930s can also produce it easily enough. It gives a smaller, but still useful, advantage over 87 octane fuel even in German engines, and when combined with MW-50 gives excellent performance.


The DB-604 may not, in the end, see the light of day, then again it might given that the heyday of the piston engine will last a few more years in WW than it did historically. The Jumo-222 is in the same boat, but one of the two will probably see some use, simply because the Jumo-222 was ready to go by the end of WWII but made unnecessary by the development of the jet and the strategic situation


The BMW-802 is very likely to be used as a successor to the -801 in similar designs, as the -801 starts to run out of development room after the -801F and -801T.


The Argus H-engines may see some use, I've worked up a little one (similar to the historical As-412 with 8 cylinders lopped off to reduce cooling problems like the Napier Dagger had, but based on the As-411 rather than the As-410) for possible use in a Hs-129 that won't have access to captured French radials. The big Argus H-engines could be used on bombers or patrol aircraft, but..... they're BIG!


DB engines are in a little better supply than historical, one of the products of the friendly relations between WW Germany and the US in the early 30s has been some assistance on DB's production processes from Allison, so some of the kinks and bottlenecks are being reduced. Like I've said, though, most likely the Bf-109 line will end with the WW version of the Bf-109F, after that it's too small really for future development. Keep in mind, too, that the WW He-100 is a bit larger than historical, giving it a bit more development room for the future than it's competitor.

Late 1937 update:

1 - The Ju-88 has been built in reasonably quantity in 1937.

2 - The He-100 is in production in 1937.

3 - The Fw-190 begins production in late 1937, when the BMW-801s cooling issues are finally fixed.

4 - The Bf-109F airframe is in production alongside the He-100 and Fw-190, and the Bf-109T is being produced for service aboard the Peter Strasser and Graf Zeppelin.

5- The Ju-90S and He-177 with BMW-801s are flying, a small contract for He-177s will be placed to keep the companies interested.

6 - Dornier is developing the Do-217 as a new medium bomber to replace the He-111 and Do-17, and it is successfully flying with BMW-801s at the end of the year. The Luftwaffe is intrigued, but lacks the money for a major contract and wants to see additional defensive armament. The Luftwaffe is also unsure if it should devote large amounts of funds to a possibly transitional type, if the Jumo-222 or DB-604 come to fruition.

7 - Junkers is delivering the Ju-152, a successor to the Ju-52.

8 - Junkers continues working on a successor to the Ju-87, based on the historical EF-65/EF-82 projects (see here: http://www.geocities.com/hjunkers/ju_ef082_a1.htm ). Probably won't be ready for production until at least 1938, as a successor to the Ju-87.

9 - Dornier is working on LARGE, long ranged flying boats, along the lines of the Do-214/216 projects. No current plans to produce them, but that could change.


Events in South America suggested that night fighters might be necessary, since it seems that the way to bomb your opponent might be to attack at night. This work continues on airborne radar and infra-red detectors, but only trial installations have occurred on test-bed Do-17s retired from the Luftwaffe.


Engine-wise, Germany is cranking along historical lines (though there IS a push to develop more engines that take full advantage of the properties of 100 octane vs 87 octane fuel).

Daimler-Benz has decided not to bother with the DB-605 project in favor of further development (in terms of compression, supercharging, and methanol-water injection) of the DB-601 until it's eventual replacement by the DB-603. B-601E's are flying in the Bf-109F and the He-100. Work is also being done on the DB-604 X-engine, with 2 prototypes powering the He-121 racers, and the DB-603 is roaring on the test bench and working through produceability testing

The BMW-801 cooling issues have finally been solved, and production is ramping up for use in Fw-190s and He-177s. Work has begin on the BMW-802 and -803 engines, but the -803's prospects are a bit limited by its weight.

Junkers has completed development work on the Jumo-211F that became available in late 1937, and work has started on the -213. In parallel, the diesel division has cancelled work on the historical Jumo-207, but continues (slow) work on the a-historical Jumo-209 (a two-row version of the Jumo-208 ) with Pratt & Whitney. Work on the Jumo-222 "star" engine continues, with prototypes in test rigs. Work has also begun, as historical, on axial compression jet engines, the first will run in 1939.

Argus Motoren is working on an H-engine project based on two As-411s, straightened out (the -411 is a typical German inverted-V design), mounted atop one another and geared together. The first prototype ran on the test bench in early 1937, but work continues due to severe cooling problems with the rear cylinders.

Heinkel has hired Von Ohain in 1936 as historical, and currently his "garage engine" is running, though with development problems as is to be expected and as historical. Work on the Heinkel turbojets continues as historical, with design work beginning on the He-178 for it's first flight (as historical in August of 1939).

Nice summary.

Are you following OTL +3 or +5? I´m asking because 1937 and a 801 without cooling problems is +5, not +3. Just currious....

This seems very reasonable.

Not sure the Bf-109T is suited to carriers mind you but I'm sure something new will appear in due course.

The Do-217 could be useful but with the Ju-88 your duplicating some effort but having two types is sometimes better than all eggs in one basket.

Really it seems the Luftwaffe is streched for money and is stringing things out keeping the companies occupied until the better stuff appears in the 1940s.

Hoo,

The initial Fw-190s are test models equivalent to the A-0s and A-1s, the cooling difficulties in the -190 aren't completely solved (the first A-2s started appearing in October of 1941 with the 801 C-2 engine, the final fix was modifying the exhaust system). The engine itself is fixed, it's installation issues that now have to be worked out.


Hood,

The -109T was historically what was planned, the WW version is just based on the -109F rather than the -109E. Is it ideal? No, the range is lower than I'd like, but Germany will make do for now. A navalized Fw-190 is a possible replacement for the future, as is a navalized He-100.

The WW Ju-88 isn't really competing in the same area as the Do-217: the Ju-88 is a dive bomber and the Do-217 is a medium bomber (the idea of having it dive-capable was dropped when the empty weight reached 9,000 kg).

Right now, the Luftwaffe is spending it's production money mostly on Ju-88s, He-100s, with some on Fw-190s, Bf-109Fs and Ts, and on Ju-152s. The He-177s are too expensive to buy in quantity right now and the defensive armament needs work, and there isn't a big enough budget to afford Do-217s to replace He-111s that are only 3-4 years old or Do-17s that are only a year or two older.

There is an element of "stringing things out" because the engine manufacturers are promising good things soon, and the Luftwaffe doesn't want to spend too much on things that are obsolete immediately. The engine manufacturers won't be able to deliver, as it turns out, right away on the new engines, so you'll see more types using the current engines in 1938, but that's for next year.

It's just the Bf-109T had poor visibility on landing and poor undercarriage but if Messerschmitt in WW have worked on these problems then it should be more useful. Otherwise its like the Seafire, excellent but fragile.

There's nothing wrong with waiting for better stuff to come along. Germany has no need to build large fleets of heavy bombers and the He-111 is still a good bomber with life in it.
All in all a very realistic approach.

I'm not too worried about the landing issues, both are more training issues than anything else. Will it be as ideal as some other types? No, but since Germany won't be sending novice pilots to sea any time soon, I expect they can be lived with.

No, Germany doesn't currently see the need for a large fleet of heavy bombers, but it does think it's worth doing some development there which is why the He-177 is being developed further. A small production run will give enough copies to develop doctrine and training, without breaking the budget.

Forgot the helicopter work going in Germany in 1937:

Focke-Wulf (the RLM did not force Focke out of his own company) has begun test flights of the Fw-223 V1 (the historical Fa-223) in October of 1937. Currently, ideas for production include:
# Fw-223A - for anti-submarine warfare, to carry 2 x 250 kg (550 lb) bombs or depth charges.
# Fw-223B - for reconnaissance missions; fitted with a jettisonable fuel tank.
# Fw-223C - for search and rescue duties, fitted with a steel winch cable.
# Fw-223D - freight variant, for resupplying mountain troops.
# Fw-223E - dual-control trainer.
# Fw-226 - passenger helicopter for Luft Hansa.


Flettner has transitioned from working on the Fl-265 (which has sold in small numbers to the Luftwaffe and Nordmark) to working on the Fl-282, with expectations that it will fly for the first time in 1938. This work is being supported by the Kreigsmarine, seeing the smaller Fl-282 as more widely usable aboard ship than the larger Fw-223.

Specs for the Fw-223 the same as the historical helicopter?

Yep, both are as historical.

Late 1938 update:

1 - The Ju-88 has been built in reasonably quantity in 1938.

2 - The He-100 is in production in 1938.

3 - The Fw-190 is in production in 1938.

4 - The Bf-109F airframe is in production alongside the He-100 and Fw-190, and the Bf-109T is being produced for service aboard the Peter Strasser and Graf Zeppelin.

5- A small contract for He-177s has been placed to keep the companies interested, and to allow further development of the heavy bomber concept.

6 - Dornier is selling the Do-217 to foreign customers. The Luftwaffe is intrigued, but lacks the money for a major contract and wants to see additional defensive armament and perhaps DB-603s vs the BMW-801s currently used. The Luftwaffe is also unsure if it should devote large amounts of funds to a possibly transitional type, if the Jumo-222 or DB-604 come to fruition.

7 - Junkers is delivering the Ju-152, a successor to the Ju-52.

8 - Junkers continues working on a successor to the Ju-87, based on the historical EF-65/EF-82 projects (see here: http://www.geocities.com/hjunkers/ju_ef082_a1.htm ). Probably won't be ready for production until at least 1939, as a successor to the Ju-87.

9 - Dornier is working on LARGE, long ranged flying boats, along the lines of the Do-214/216 projects. No current plans to produce them, but that could change.

10 - Blohm und Voss has completed the design of the Bv-222 and the V1 is being built for demonstration to Luft Hansa as a long-range passenger plane for over-water flights.

Events in South America suggested that night fighters might be necessary, since it seems that the way to bomb your opponent might be to attack at night. This work continues on airborne radar and infra-red detectors, but only trial installations have occurred on test-bed Do-17s retired from the Luftwaffe (given current conditions in Europe, there's no desperate rush for these and the RLM wants radars that don't destroy the aircraft's streamlining).


Helicopters:

Focke-Wulf (the RLM did not force Focke out of his own company) began test flights of the Fw-223 V1 (the historical Fa-223) in October of 1937. Currently, ideas for production include:
# Fw-223A - for anti-submarine warfare, to carry 2 x 250 kg (550 lb) bombs or depth charges.
# Fw-223B - for reconnaissance missions; fitted with a jettisonable fuel tank.
# Fw-223C - for search and rescue duties, fitted with a steel winch cable.
# Fw-223D - freight variant, for resupplying mountain troops.
# Fw-223E - dual-control trainer.
# Fw-226 - passenger helicopter for Luft Hansa.


Flettner has transitioned from working on the Fl-265 (which has sold in small numbers to the Luftwaffe and Nordmark) to working on the Fl-282, with expectations that it will fly for the first time at the end of 1938. This work is being supported by the Kreigsmarine, seeing the smaller Fl-282 as more widely usable aboard ship than the larger Fw-223.


Engine-wise, Germany is cranking along (mostly) historical lines.

Daimler-Benz has decided not to bother with the DB-605 project in favor of further development (in terms of compression, supercharging, and methanol-water injection) of the DB-601 until it's eventual replacement by the DB-603 (the data on the DB-605 project has been sold to Poland and to China). DB-601EM's are flying in the Bf-109F and the He-100. Work is also being done on the DB-604 X-engine, with 2 prototypes powering the He-121 racers, and the DB-603 has worked it's way through produceability testing and is ready for production.

The BMW-801 is in production is ramping up for use in Fw-190s, Do-217s, and He-177s. Work has begin on the BMW-802 and -803 engines, but the -803's prospects are a bit limited by its weight.

Junkers has completed the prototype Jumo-213 and it has been running since earlier in the year. Work on the a-historical Jumo-209 continues (a two-row version of the Jumo-208 ) with Pratt & Whitney. Work on the Jumo-222 "star" engine continues, with first flight in the nose of a Ju-52 in March of 1938. However, reliability has been poor so work continues. Work has also begun, as historical, on axial compression jet engines, the first will run in 1939.

Argus Motoren is working on an H-engine project based on two As-411s, straightened out (the -411 is a typical German inverted-V design), mounted atop one another and geared together. The first prototype ran on the test bench in early 1937, but work continues due to severe cooling problems with the rear cylinders. A derivitive, the As-413, has been built that lops off the rear 8 cylinders in an effort to alleviate the cooling problems.

Heinkel hired Von Ohain in 1936 as historical, and currently his "garage engine" is running, though with development problems as is to be expected and as historical. Work on the Heinkel turbojets continues as historical, with design work beginning on the He-178 for it's first flight (as historical in August of 1939).

Mexico would like to order a small batch of Fl-282's once they are ready.

Also, when will the torpedo and high-altitude version of the FW-190 enter service?