WesWorld

If any information that is available about the Siamese Army could be posted here by those privy to it, I would be much obliged. In the mean time, Here is what I see the Siamese Army being equipped with material-wise ATM:

Primary Sidearm: Webley Mk. I - 11.5x12.6mm
(a license-produced version)*

Primary Longarm: SMLE Mk V - 7.7x56mmR
(a license produced version)

Primary LMG: Lewis 7.7x56mmR
(a license produced version)

Primary MMG: Vickers 7.7x56mmR, Mk. II
(a license produced version)

Primary HMG: NONE AT THIS TIME#


*I must admit a certain prejudice to keeping this as the standard sidearm of the Siamese Army even after it was judged obsolescent. I own an original Mk I Webley, and find that it is one of the finest pistols ever built.

# The Siamese government has recently discontinued using the unsatisfactory 12.7mm Vickers HMG, and unceremoniously stated that they wish to melt them down to build more Vickers 7.7x56mmR guns. They are currently searching for a new heavy machine gun.

Quoted

Originally posted by Carthaginian

*I must admit a certain prejudice to keeping this as the standard sidearm of the Siamese Army even after it was judged obsolescent. I own an original Mk I Webley, and find that it is one of the finest pistols ever built.

...I hate you and I'm jealous.

I have a friend in Iraq who ran across a minty Martini-Henry. Due to army rules it had to be destroyed. The heathens, destroying history like that...

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by Carthaginian

*I must admit a certain prejudice to keeping this as the standard sidearm of the Siamese Army even after it was judged obsolescent. I own an original Mk I Webley, and find that it is one of the finest pistols ever built.

...I hate you and I'm jealous.

I have a friend in Iraq who ran across a minty Martini-Henry. Due to army rules it had to be destroyed. The heathens, destroying history like that...

I'd have left it in peace with the owner... with a $20 and the mailing address of a FFL dealer I didn't like too much. As long as it's purchased, delivered to an FFL dealer and resold under US law, it should be legal.

As for the Webley, get even more jealous...
I got it for FREE! I was helping my aunt move into a new house back about 10 years ago, and was trying to shove some boxes into a corner in a closet. Something blocked me... turned out to be the pistol. The lady that had previously owned the house said "Dad brought it back from France in '18... kept it in that closet for 80 years. I don't like guns; you can have it."

Of course, bullets are about $1 a round for it, but she's a beauty for sure. Only thing wrong with her except for obvious aging is 1.) bottom 1/8" of left side 'bird's beak' grip chipped off, cosmetic defect only 2.) hammer spur had been bent slightly, causing gun to misfire; this was easily fixed with a file... afterwards, she fired like new. 75 rounds afterwards, no problems have surfaced.

I would suggest that Danish equipment is far more likely than British. As far as I know, Siam was until very recently a Danish possession, so the equipment is likely Danish.. or Dutch/Iberian/Italian.

I don't see a Danish army post in CG's encyclopedia. So I did some web poking.

Judging from historic weapons...
The sidearm would be the .. Bergmann bayard m1910/21 SA 9mm? That's new to me Apparently the Danes built them for quite some time.

The rifle would be a Danish Gevaer m/89-10 firing a spitzer 8mm krag round.

A cut down rifle gave the cavalry carbine Rytterkarabin m/89, and there was a newer, shorter version, the Fodfolkskarabin m/89-24

The Light MGs would be the Madsen light machine gun in 8mm, while poking about the web seems to find the mediums also in 8mm- possibly an HB version.

Rifle would likely be the Danish Gevaer m/89-10 in 8 mm

OTL the Danes copied the Soumi SMG as the Madsen M41

You're right, I'm more jealous now. Those old guns have unspoken stories, and I miss that with the new combat tupperware they make these days.

Quoted

I would suggest that Danish equipment is far more likely than British. As far as I know, Siam was until very recently a Danish possession, so the equipment is likely Danish.. or Dutch/Iberian/Italian.

Awww... I'm going to have to give up the Webley.
I went with the British stuff because OTL SIam had a lot of deals with them.

But wait, this other pistol- it's so wonderfully WEIRD!
It's 9x23mm round is so oddball that I've only seen one modern chambering for it, and it's even suitable for a SMG.

The rest I'll look up later, but the Danish equipment looks to be pretty interesting.

Quoted

But wait, this other pistol- it's so wonderfully WEIRD!

Looks quite similar to the Mauser C96 but chambered for a larger 9x23 instead of 7.62x25. Then again, some were chambered for 9x25 rounds.

Swampy and I discussed this in the past, let me see if I can dig it up....

Right, found it:

The Siamese are, as of 1933, using Danish Krag-Jorgensons in 8 x 58mmR, and 8 x 58mmR M1904 Madsen MGs.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Swampy and I discussed this in the past, let me see if I can dig it up....

Right, found it:

The Siamese are, as of 1933, using Danish Krag-Jorgensons in 8 x 58mmR, and 8 x 58mmR M1904 Madsen MGs.

Any info on how many tanks, troops and arty I've got?

Nope, we didn't discuss that.

Tanks? Probably none, or very few (most likely FT-17s or equivalents).

Guns? Probably some, but I'd be surprised if they were larger than about 80mm (except perhaps for a battery or two of larger weapons).


One thing that was unclear from our discussion was what caliber the aircraft were using for their belt-fed rifle caliber weapons. The Madsen isn't a belt-fed weapon, and I'm not sure what he was going to use (he's purchased planes from a number of different countries, that normally would ship with different weapons & calibers).

The 20mms on the Fw-42Bs are 20mm MG-FFs, and the 37mm on the Fw-42Cs are modified FLaK 30s.

Swampy did discuss the idea of getting some mobile artillery. I think it was Italian 75mm guns mounted on trucks. Red Admiral might have more information, or you could do a search for past Siamese news, its somewhere in there.

EDIT: Found the relevant news:
Bangkok Bungle Q3/4 1933

From a website that stated the weapons and organization of the Thai forces in their 1941 war.

Here are the weapons.
Weapons

* The following weapons are known, or at least suspected, of being used by the Thais in the FTW: Rifles:
o 8mm, 5-shot Mausers bought from the Japanese army in 1926 when the latter changed to the 6.5mm Arisaka model 03 (1915) : 80,000-120,000 of. (From 1935, these were being slowly replaced by the "Rama VI" rifle, a more modern and shortened Mauser built to Thai specifications and the same length as the French rifles used by Indochinese troops)
o ?mm Lee-Enfields (simply described as British Army regulation rifles, possibly .303) bought by the "Wild Tiger Corps" (patriotic society founded by Rama VI) in 1923 and transfered to the War Office in 1926 to be issued to 2nd line units : 80,000 of.
o 8mm Arisaka model 03 (1915) rechambered and bought from the Japanese army in 1928-29 : 35,000 of.
* Machine-guns:
o 8mm Madsen LMG, bought in 1924 and 1927 : 625 of.
o 8mm "Colt" MG (M1917 water-cooled Browning), bought in ? : 225 of, 192 for the Infantry (24 per regiment) and 32 for the cavalry (16 per regiment).
o 8mm Vickers : Air Force and Vickers Carden Loyd tankettes only
o ?mm Lewis : Air Force only
* Mortars: 81mm Brandt
* Anti-Tank Guns:
o 37mm (Pak35/36 or Japanese Type97)?
o 25mm Hotchkiss Mle34?
* Artillery:
o 77mm (German FK-16? Possibly WW1 war-booty sold by the victors as surplus? May be confusion with 75mm, below. Also 40x 75mm Krupp field guns bought pre-WW1).
o 50mm mountain gun, Austrian, pre-war pattern : 150 of, thought to be used as infantry guns for second-line infantry battalions. Range 3.5km, 2kg shell.
o 75mm mountain gun, Krupp design, some 40 bought from Germany in 1912, overwhelming majority (200) bought from Japan in 1923 : 240 of. (The Thai ponies proved too small to carry these as pack-loads, so locally-produced light limbers/carriages & caissons allowed draught by 6-ponies in harness. During 1930 maneuvers, 1 battalion of 75mm MGs from 1st {Guards} Artillery Regt was motorised with Morris 6-wheel trucks in an experiment). *New information from declassified French military archives: these were Japanese 75mm Field Guns, being lightened versions of the famous Krupp 77mm with a shortened barrel. Maximum range was 6000m, but seldom used beyond 4000m*
o Bofors 75mm Field Gun, 4 delivered June 1936, and a further 90 ordered on 22 August 1936 (78 for the Army & 12 for the Navy)
o Bofors 105mm howitzers, 8 delivered June 1936
o Trials were conducted on 25/3/25 with a Japanese infantry gun supplied by the Japanese Military Attache...
* AA guns:
o 20mm Oerlikon?
o 2-pdr pompom (dismounted from Vickers AA SPG)
o Bofors 75mm AA guns - 2 batteries delivered June 1936
* Tanks:
o Vickers Carden-Loyd tankette, delivered 9 May 1930 and issued to the 1st Cavalry regiment according to the 20 May 1930 issue of the Khrungthep (Bangkok) Daily mail : 10 of. (30 by September 1936).
o 30 Vickers 6-tonners (10 ordered 17 November 1932). Also 26 Vickers AA SPG with 2pdr/40mm AA gun.
o 2 VCL Amphibious Tanks ordered between November 1933 and April 1934, apparently for use by the new, Army-dominated regime against the Navy if these rebelled in their turn!
* Armoured Cars:
o 10 Citroen halftracks bought in 1925 (half by Ministry of Communications, half by War Office). Could be used as armoured cars.
o 6 Vickers Armoured Cars delivered in 1931

Here is the website address:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/wwars/thaiarmy.htm

perdedor99,

Thanks a LOT.
I'll try and put that into some useful format and clean things up a bit. I'm likely to get rid of the strangeness of my assortment of weapons a bit since Siam was a Danish colony/protectorate in WW, but this gives me some working numbers from which to start building an army.


DF,

I'll pencil in some stuff about that. Siam in WW will probably start making connections between those halftracks and the mountain guns pretty soon.


Hrolf,

OK... for my air force. That's a mess. Swampy listed the WW names and classifications for everything, so I'm still picking my way through the boards trying to locate stats, armaments, etc. That'll be a project for my next week off from clinical.

Quoted

Originally posted by Carthaginian
perdedor99,

Thanks a LOT.
I'll try and put that into some useful format and clean things up a bit. I'm likely to get rid of the strangeness of my assortment of weapons a bit since Siam was a Dutch colony/protectorate in WW, but this gives me some working numbers from which to start building an army.

Danish, not Dutch.

Having that handy Dane motorcycle/20mm AT gun tandem in their inventory could be of interest for the Siamese.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Danish, not Dutch.

I gotta remember that.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
Having that handy Dane motorcycle/20mm AT gun tandem in their inventory could be of interest for the Siamese.

Hmmm... *starts looking into that*

Quoted

OK... for my air force. That's a mess. Swampy listed the WW names and classifications for everything, so I'm still picking my way through the boards trying to locate stats, armaments, etc. That'll be a project for my next week off from clinical.

I had some discussions with Swampy regarding that. Let me see what I can dig up.

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox

Quoted

OK... for my air force. That's a mess. Swampy listed the WW names and classifications for everything, so I'm still picking my way through the boards trying to locate stats, armaments, etc. That'll be a project for my next week off from clinical.

I had some discussions with Swampy regarding that. Let me see what I can dig up.

Thanks, DF.
It'll make managing this mess a lot easier.