WesWorld

Maybe its time to re-open the disscussions?

*British representive quickly grabs the comfy chair nearest the bar*

The starting point seems to be from Kirk's useful summing up;

A. No pressing reason for the mandate now, it could be dissolved.

B. There may be 2 historical claiments.

C. There was a (considerable) sticking point in that Bahrat and China would not recognize France's authority to simply waive Vietnamese territorial claims as the Dutch had suggested to expedite this.
So they wanted to delay until 1945 to finish this as a Chinese-Viet matter, but China wants the islands in the interim. However it's usually bad form to award contested property to one of two plaintiffs for 10 years prior resolution.

D. People seemed to agreeable to the idea that the Permanent Court of Justice's was an appropriate forum to figure out historical ownership.


China's recent actions might just invalidate C in that they haven't waited until 1945 to tramp their boots all over it.

The Japanese LoN representative is currently dealing with a minor personal problem so he is of no use right now...

*infects other members of the LoN*

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
The Japanese LoN representative is currently dealing with a minor personal problem so he is of no use right now...

*infects other members of the LoN*

Rooijen, are you suggesting that he is of use at other times??

More useful than the Dutch, even in his current Zombrow condition.

HEHEHE

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
China's recent actions might just invalidate C in that they haven't waited until 1945 to tramp their boots all over it.

"China hasn't touched the paracels, so this statement isn't correct and almost an insulting, because China surely account that there are other claims on the Paracels. That's why China accepted that the mandate will be in force till 1945.
This has nothing to do with anything about the Spratleys, because now (and in the past) ONLY the Paracels were distributed and EVERY NATION accepted, that the Spratleys were purely filipino territory (see map of wesworld) !!!

China is happy to discuss with other countries about the situation on the Paracel, but it forbids everybody that the transactions on the Spratleys are referred by other nations as acts of war."

.... after he said this, the Chinese delegate, visibly upset, sat down back in his chair.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
The Japanese LoN representative is currently dealing with a minor personal problem so he is of no use right now...

*infects other members of the LoN*

OOC: The Atlantean delegate is imune, as no doubt the deveous Atlanteans created the unibrow virus for their own nefarious plans, therefore he has an antidote.

Oh and I do recall the Chinese landing on the Paracels....no?

IC: "Atlantis feels Chile should be awarded mandate status of the Islands as they have a permanent grave on the Island, that is if others here feel Iberian control of the mandate is no longer needed....

Our veiw on the Veitnamese claim to the Islands does not change and in fact recent events in the Spratley's reinforces our view to that reguard. We do not see China's claims as being historical in nature but militaristic and provocative and we cannot with good faith grant the islands to China so that they may use those islands to threaten the other claimant, Vietnam."

The Atlantean delegate calmly sat back down in his chair.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
IC: "Atlantis feels Chile should be awarded mandate status of the Islands as they have a permanent grave on the Island, that is if others here feel Iberian control of the mandate is no longer needed....

IC: The Chilean delegate sips his glass of Madeira. "Chile does not have any issues at present with the current Iberian mandate and would prefer not to bounce the mandate around like a bunny, but rather to resolve the issue of the claim once and for all. As China has refused to accept French caretakership of Indochina, this is impossible at present."

IC: The Brazilian delegate sets down his cup of coffee, quickly writes a note on his napkin to the Atlantean and Chilean delegates, offering the loan of the 2nd Coastal Defence Group, and the 1st Scouting Group respectively for use in their home waters should either nation wish to deploy heavy units to Indochina incase tensions over this issue worsen.

Australia, as a disinterested neutral, is willing to make the sacrifice of taking over those islands in the interest of peace.

OOC:

I think we should clarify it here once and for all:

Paracels:
-----------
iberian mandat; Disputed by Chile, China, Vietnam (French Indochine)


Spratleys:
------------
Philippine territory



Everyone was happy with this situation in the past and there was no discussion about it !!!!
Suddenly there are voices that say something other than what was previously okay for everyone.

I'm not aware of any change to the Atlantean possition, however seeing as the British decided to review the current situation we used the opertunity to restate our opinion in light of recent events...

Quoted

The Atlantean delegate is imune, as no doubt the deveous Atlanteans created the unibrow virus for their own nefarious plans, therefore he has an antidote.

a) You don't know what the name of the virus. I do.
b) You don't know why it was created. I do.
c) You don't know the name of the antidote. I do.
d) You don't know how to be naturally immune to the virus. I do.

... so obviously he uses an antidote that has no effect on the virus and has grown a unibrow by now.

Quoted

Oh and I do recall the Chinese landing on the Paracels....no?

I'm not sure but wasn't that before the mandate business and one of the reasons the mandate came into effect?



IC: *takes antidote* Japan disagrees with the Atlanteans. The fact that there are British soldiers burried in France and Belgium does not mean that those nations should become British just because the British have their dead burried there. Chile has no business on the West side of the Pacific. The only legitimate claims on the Paracel Islands are those of China and Indochina (and not Vietnam). In our eyes, the best solution is to split the island group in two and hand one half over to China and the other half over to Indochina. The exact division to be determined by the members of the League of Nations. That way, everybody's happy about the fate of a bunch of rocks sticking above the water.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
Chile has no business on the West side of the Pacific.

I would like to note (once again, since it seems I'm being ignored) that Ithekro claimed the islands because:
- 1. A Chilean sailor was buried there
- 2. The islands were "unclaimed" at the time (neither China nor Indochina had expressed any interest in the islands)

Chile has stated (repeatedly) that it will not seriously object to another power being awarded ownership of the islands, so long as they maintain the Chilean grave there, or permit Chile to do so. So far, Chile has no objection to the Iberian caretakers in this regard. Further, Chile has stated that Vietnamese and Chinese claims have predated and thus take precedence over the Chilean claim.

The situation in the Spratleys is vaguely similar, as Vietnamese and Chinese claims are roughly similar to those in the Paracels - with the added amusement that the Philippines claimed the islands in the 1920s, then occupied them militarily. There was no Philippine claim prior to the 1920s. It is as yet unknown why France did not protest this occupation on behalf of Indochina, but Chile believes China, Vietnam, and the Philippines all have equivalent legitimate claims.

Finally, Chile doesn't see what value there is in acquiring either the Spratleys or the Paracels, as there is no native population, nor are the islands large enough for military occupation (as is apparently planned by the Chinese).

Chile proposes to solve the problem by dispatching a dredge to remove the navigational hazards the islands present, with the dirt to be given equally to Vietnam, China, and the Philippines.

OOC: I'm not sure what you are trying to do but IC and OOC you are now suddely trying to create a dispute that wasn't there in the first place. Spratleys are Filipino. No one else disputed the claim or claimed the islands as their own.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
OOC: I'm not sure what you are trying to do but IC and OOC you are now suddely trying to create a dispute that wasn't there in the first place. Spratleys are Filipino. No one else disputed the claim or claimed the islands as their own.

I'll repeat myself very slowly:

The Spratlys were claimed by China and Vietnam before the 1700s.

The Spratlys were claimed by the Philippines in 1924.

China contested the claim to the Spratlys in 1931. "China holds the Annexion of the Spratly by the Philippines... still for illegal."

Please get your facts straight. I'm merely summarizing events, not making them up. I'd suggest you stop handwaving around your unibrow virus as a distraction, stop glossing over the facts, and pay attention to the actual debate, here.

Problem solved...

Excellent suggestion.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
OOC: I'm not sure what you are trying to do but IC and OOC you are now suddely trying to create a dispute that wasn't there in the first place. Spratleys are Filipino. No one else disputed the claim or claimed the islands as their own.

I'll repeat myself very slowly:

The Spratlys were claimed by China and Vietnam before the 1700s.

The Spratlys were claimed by the Philippines in 1924.

China contested the claim to the Spratlys in 1931. "China holds the Annexion of the Spratly by the Philippines... still for illegal."

Please get your facts straight. I'm merely summarizing events, not making them up. I'd suggest you stop handwaving around your unibrow virus as a distraction, stop glossing over the facts, and pay attention to the actual debate, here.

Is this OTL history, or WW history?

OTL history:
- The Vietnamese made a claim for the islands in the 1600s.
- The Chinese contend that their claim dates to 600 BC with mentions in Chinese government records.
- The French occupied the Spratlys from 1933 onward, building and maintaining a weather station (which was protested by the ROC).
- The Philippines didn't make a claim until 1956.

WW History:
- Presumed as historic until otherwise noted
- The Philippines occupies and claims the islands in 1924 (point of departure)
- China contests the Philippine claim in 1931.

It is my understanding that unless otherwise stated in game setup history, then OTL history applies. Repeatedly insisting there is no contest over the Spratlys is blatantly untrue - whether you're going by WW history, or by OTL history.

Apparently China has ceded its claim on the islands to the Philippines, and in exchange received an agreement to use them as a condominium. In order for the Spratlys to be uncontested, then, France needs to cede the claim on behalf of Indochina. (Though that won't settle the issue - since SATSUMA won't accept France's ability to negotiate the Paracels on Indochina's behalf, then by the same measure France can't CEDE the Spratlys on Indochina's behalf.)

I'm not trying to make an argument one way or the other: I think all three countries have pretty good cases to claim jurisdiction. But it's untrue to claim that there is no contest over the Spratlys.