WesWorld

India's response:

Indeed we abide by the Indochina Protocol and recognize France as the representative of Indochina. What we are against is for a nation consider by the European nations not ready to have their own representative in this esteem forum to be given that burden. Maybe a compromise could be reached. Iberia seems amicable to China taken over that burden. Perhaps give the mandate to China for a period of ten years? Enough for the plebiscite in Indochina to have ended and the case could be them examined by the World Court.

Atlantean responce:

I fail to see the point of handing over the mandate from one country to another if there is a posibility it will again go to a third. Iberia seems to be doing an adequate job.

The US representative comments:

"The point would be that China is a possible owner, Iberia is not. In one case, should China prove it's ownership of the islands, the islands would then remain with China, but no longer as a mandate. In the other case, where the Indoichinese prove a claim, the islands would then revert to Indochina, again with the mandate ending."

My opinion regarding an OOC matter :
While not directly bearing on China vs. Indochina's claim,
SA's mention of Iberia's doing an adequeate job is likely to yield a Chinese denouncement.

China has put forward that Iberia is not doing a good job in the mandate, hence the entire storyline of China violating the mandate, establishing infrastructure and conducting a sweep that turned up goods and evidence.

However, that storyline was written about territory under Iberian control, when the Iberian player (RAM) was not present. Further.. there has been no South China Sea piracy issues hitting headlines for years.

So China can advance this claim, but unless the Iberian player (CG) agrees that Iberia hasn't been doing it's job and the islands are being used by pirates, there are no valid underpinnings to it, and any munitions found were likely pre-mandate.

India response:

"Our nation is just trying to reach a compromise until the moment occurs when the Indochinese people have made a decision by the power of the vote." delegate stops for a moment, smiling while thinking his use of democracy as a tool knowing full well his nation is not one in the true sense of the word, "We admit the Iberians are more than willing to past the mantle of that mandate to another nation and China is more than willing to take it. By 1945 a plebiscite would have occurred already in Indochina and we consider the situation could be brought forward to the World Court for arbitration at that time.

OOC: Aren't you jumping the Gun abit? I don't recall Iberia saying they are more than willing to pass the torch yet.

I also have to agree with Kirk. Without any news of the mandates use by Pirates for years, we should assume that there hasn't been any, unless Mac agrees with it.

Bulgaria believes this is a matter for somebody else to decide and the Bulgarian representative goes home for a week to consult with the government.

Frank Reuter, Netherlands LON Delegate :
While I sympathize with the Chinese desire to reestablish their ancient Empire, I think it would be irresponsible of the League to transfer administration of a League Mandate to any country that has claims on the territory of that Mandate, it would be a terrible conflict of interest and a horrid precedent. Continuing the current situation preserves the rights of the fisherfolk of both nations until such a time as the territory can be formally restored to it's rightful owner.

So, under some unique legal theory, Bharat and China, and apparently Romania, do not recognize the 1884 treaty between the sovereign states of France and Vietnam, authorizing France to conduct affairs, to be valid or binding for some reason.

As such you claim this matter can not be settled without a separate Indochinese presence and so should be delayed until 1945. Yet you also adhere to the terms of the Indochina Protocol signed just three years ago in which you pledged to recognize French authority to conduct such affairs. In that case, why are you insisting on waiting until 1945 ? Is there a clause in the Indochina Protocol that allows you to recognize French authority except when you do not care to?

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Bulgaria believes this is a matter for somebody else to decide and the Bulgarian representative goes home for a week to consult with the government.

OOC : Well this has to be August, when I put in a news article about a Trial by Combat in the Kongo to resolve a territorial dispute between two tribes... so there is precedent

Edit : as for the someone else, actually there was already an agreement to send it to the Court- which would make it Hood's problem, now it's about in which decade.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
Is there a clause in the Indochina Protocol that allows you to recognize French authority except when you do not care to?

Atlantis is very carefully considering how to preceed with this issue when the answer to this question can be explained by India and China.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk

So, under some unique legal theory, Bharat and China, and apparently Romania, do not recognize the 1884 treaty between the sovereign states of France and Vietnam, authorizing France to conduct affairs, to be valid or binding for some reason.

Mr. Titulescu stands.
Pardon me sir, but while I do agree that China has a historic claim to these islands, we also said that Romania recognizes that the Indochinese people also have a claim to these islands, and as such Romania agrees that therefore the French nation should either decide to dispute the claim, or waive it. Romania also however feels that the suggestion made by the Indian delegate has some merit. Should the Indochinese people gain independence, we don't want them to have greiviance against the French for giving up their claims to these islands.

The Indian envoy just smiled at the Atlantean response and his thoughts were that the Dutch and FAR were in the same bed. "Like thieves on the night. Trying to further expand their empires with subterfuges. We'll let see what they say."

He stood: "We accept the French so-called protection of Indochina but not to further expand their Empire. As such India is willing to put the matter to rest until 1945, when an independent Indochina, Cambodia and Laos could sit with us here in this chambers. China on the other hand is free to further pursue their case if they so desire, being the only true free nation with a case at this time."

OOC: Why am I not surprised that FAR's been draged into the diplomatic mud slinging.

"Pardon me sir but was the Indochina protocall not an attempt by France to cut lose some of its empire, rather than expand it? Are you now stating that the French intent was to somehow placate India just so that in the future it could steal a set of barren, un-inhabited Islands?"

He smiled again and stood:

"We are not saying nothing to offend our esteem French representatives but it's strange to us that the Dutch didn't present this when Iberia was awarded the mandate but now conveniently they put this facts forward. We see more a case of Dutch duplicity were sadly the honorable French delegation has being caught on a bind. That is why we proposed the compromise where China takes over the mandate until 1945 when the case could be taken forward to the Court."

Frank Reuter, Netherlands LON Delegate :

Once again my colleague from Bharat stoops to name calling instead of presenting his case in a sensible manner.

The creation of the Mandate was hardly a Dutch idea in the first place. Awarding the islands to the custody of Iberia as a formal Mandate seemed a reasonable solution at the time. As you may recall, the Chinese Civil War was still raging and there was not a unified government there to defend their territories and present their case.

The Netherlands absorbed a large number of refugees (1) from that conflict, quickly recognized the current Chinese government and have maintained good relations since.

Now, as for "expanding the French Empire". Either the islands are Chinese by ancient claim and right, or they are Indochinese, regardless of who has custody of Indochinese policy.

There is no reason not to bring the case to the Court to bring this matter to a close within the next couple of years after the Court has researched and advised.

(1) As historical and discussed with Ubiwan.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
The Indian envoy just smiled at the Atlantean response and his thoughts were that the Dutch and FAR were in the same bed. "Like thieves on the night. Trying to further expand their empires with subterfuges. We'll let see what they say."

OOC : Heh, you can think what you want, but you would happen to be wrong
Also, since China brought this when Lithuania was settled, it would be mid-August, prior to SAER, or any of the Sept events.
Lastly, how the heck does advocating France waive the claim in China's favor expand the Dutch Empire???

Poland's new Foreign Minister, Mr. Jozef Beck stands

"Gentlemen, we heard quite enough of the diplomatic mud-slinging in the past debate over the crisis in Lithuania. Let us not start now over a group of seemingly insignificant islands in the Far East."

"Poland and her ally Romania concede that we have no interest in this area. Therefore, as a neutral party we feel that we would like to hear the opinion other nations on this matter. We have heard the opinion of," pauses to check notes, "China, Iberia, the Netherlands, Germany, France, Mexico, Atlantis, India, Romania, and Bulgaria on this matter. Our esteemed Romanian colleague expressed a wish to hear the opinion of other nations in this area, yet all we have heard is the bickering back and forth between Atlantis, the Netherlands, and India on this matter. Come gentlemen, now is the time to speak."

Canada sees no reason to transfer control of the Paracel Mandate at this time.

China's territorial claims would have more weight if they'd been brought to this body /before/ they landed troops and equipment on the islands uninvited and unannounced.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
Frank Reuter, Netherlands LON Delegate :

Once again my colleague from Bharat stoops to name calling instead of presenting his case in a sensible manner.

The creation of the Mandate was hardly a Dutch idea in the first place. Awarding the islands to the custody of Iberia as a formal Mandate seemed a reasonable solution at the time. As you may recall, the Chinese Civil War was still raging and there was not a unified government there to defend their territories and present their case.

The Netherlands absorbed a large number of refugees (1) from that conflict, quickly recognized the current Chinese government and have maintained good relations since.

Now, as for "expanding the French Empire". Either the islands are Chinese by ancient claim and right, or they are Indochinese, regardless of who has custody of Indochinese policy.

There is no reason not to bring the case to the Court to bring this matter to a close within the next couple of years after the Court has researched and advised.

(1) As historical and discussed with Ubiwan.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
The Indian envoy just smiled at the Atlantean response and his thoughts were that the Dutch and FAR were in the same bed. "Like thieves on the night. Trying to further expand their empires with subterfuges. We'll let see what they say."

OOC : Heh, you can think what you want, but you would happen to be wrong
Also, since China brought this when Lithuania was settled, it would be mid-August, prior to SAER, or any of the Sept events.
Lastly, how the heck does advocating France waive the claim in China's favor expand the Dutch Empire???

OOC: Just keeping the flavor. Also he's just saying all the Europeans want to keep the status quo no matter what they say on the outside. So by letting the French getting that rocks they are creating further bad blood between France and China.

Indian delegate smiles again and stood:

"The Dutch can call it what they want but they know we are correct. They could have presented this Indochinese historical fact at the time of the Chinese Civil War but preferred to save it for a moment it will be better for them to use it against the peaceful nations of Satsuma. And as the Romanian delegation stated, is France capable of taking that decision now? Of course by then the Dutch will come up with a new trick of their sleeve."

OOC: The Indian delegate appears to think smiling a lot will have more effect. The remaining Bulgarian observers are wondering if the Indian delegate is schilling for a new brand of toothpaste, the way he keeps doing that...

Mr. Jozef Beck stands to his feet.

"Gentlemen, the historic antagonism between India and the Netherlands is not up for debate here. If you two want to cast insults at each other, and brawl like schoolchildren please do so outside."

"That being said, Poland states that it supports China in this matter, and it also supports the motion that France through its control over the Indochinese nation has a claim to the islands in question. We have already heard that the French government is working with the Indochinese to create a resolution to fix this matter. Perhaps it would be best to wait and hear the French resolution before squabbling any further?"

OOC Wow when Poland and Romania are the voice of reason and arbitration, something's wrong here. If there's a scrap, Mr. Beck is taking bets.

The Aussie gets up (half drunk of course)

"How the hell did the French get brought into this? Either the islands stay Iberian or they are handed to the Chinese, no sense complicating matter further.

Can we have a vot...(looks for Canadian janitor)...err nevermind."