WesWorld

..and another ship drawing.

A rebuild for the Vengeance class Battlecruisers in the works.



Orringinal configuration..

Given the size and location you can probably drop the secondary battery one level down to the weather deck. Might be worth having some of the mounts superfiring as well. What calibre are they? 4.5"?

I've simed her with 5.1' guns but I think I might go with the lighter 4.5" to free up some room for more deck armour. Superfiring turrets while effective in improving firing arcs for some reason looks less esthetically pleasing.

I could lower the secondarys a deck, though I did have some trouble with things being crowded. I may add some curvature to the deck above to conform to the turrets shape. I also think the forward tower structure looks abit short.

Heres the SS file. The secondarys are simmed at main deck level.

Vengeance, Atlantean Battlecruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1936)

Displacement:
39,572 t light; 41,519 t standard; 45,176 t normal; 48,101 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
838.06 ft / 825.00 ft x 92.00 ft (Bulges 112.00 ft) x 31.00 ft (normal load)
255.44 m / 251.46 m x 28.04 m (Bulges 34.14 m) x 9.45 m

Armament:
8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1918 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 5.10" / 130 mm guns (12x2 guns), 66.33lbs / 30.09kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread
16 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 12,608 lbs / 5,719 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 145

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 580.00 ft / 176.78 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: 1.58" / 40 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
145.00 ft / 44.20 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 2.95" / 75 mm 500.00 ft / 152.40 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
2.35" / 60 mm 680.00 ft / 207.26 m 26.50 ft / 8.08 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.58" / 40 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.30" / 8 mm - -
5th: 0.15" / 4 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.25" / 133 mm, Conning tower: 3.95" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 156,000 shp / 116,376 Kw = 30.01 kts
Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,583 tons

Complement:
1,549 - 2,014

Cost:
£6.643 million / $26.573 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,576 tons, 3.5 %
Armour: 17,209 tons, 38.1 %
- Belts: 7,201 tons, 15.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,567 tons, 3.5 %
- Armament: 3,179 tons, 7.0 %
- Armour Deck: 5,154 tons, 11.4 %
- Conning Tower: 108 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,377 tons, 9.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,010 tons, 35.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,604 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
72,467 lbs / 32,871 Kg = 52.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 13.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 19.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.552
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.37 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.72 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Mid (70 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m (18.00 ft / 5.49 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 23.84 ft / 7.26 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.6 %
Waterplane Area: 53,069 Square feet or 4,930 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 192 lbs/sq ft or 937 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.10
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I like the looks of the original better, but I'd rather have the armor of the modification! Looks like what the RN should have done to Hood before her demise...

Ironically enough the Vengeance class is the Atlantean version of Hood. I'm also partial to the orriginal ship but as you say her armour is becoming obsolete and her AA is very weak, particularily by wesworld standards.

This becomes more apparent when you compair them to the much slower Tyrrhenia class ships and their refits. Right now I'm not very fond of the aft superstructure, but theres just so much damn room I'm not sure she will look very balanced anyway. Hood's preposed refit and the rebuilt Renown also had this problem due to their length.

Way back when I considered a rebuild for the Vengeance class I thought about adding six twin 6" turrets, three on either side. This would have made her look much more powerfull but would be a less than ideal secondary outfit as she would requir additional secondary's devoted to AA.

Updated pic:

I still have this;

Floating around in the back of my head...

I knew that it was only a matter of time before that picture would make another appearance.

Any opertunity to use it he does!

Wishes he had picked a country that could build BBs and BCs sigh

I'm thinking a KGV style superstructure aft may be more apropriate. That would place the dirrectors further aft and the boat deck right about where the manin mast currently is.

<=== wishes he had known PI was available

Hmm Pi would go well with Persia..

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Hmm Pi would go well with Persia..

o.O

Replacing the main armour belt isn't really feasible given the massive cost that would occur, and the capacity being taken up by other newly built ships.

The revised picture looks better, I think I'd go with the larger Vanguard/KGV style superstructure and more AA guns. Lots of superstructure for room as a flagship etc.

There are many designs around with Queen Ann&acute;s mansions so Vengeance with a Richelieu-type superstructure (at least upper part) is a positive anomaly....

Your exactly right Hoo, I figured it would be too pridictable to use a Queen Ann's mansion and instead opted for a Memnon style superstructure.

The guns lower down look better than the first incarnation...

ShinRa, somewhere I found a very nice Renown drawing that I converted to an eight-gun design. Let me see where I put that...

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Any opertunity to use it he does!

It's so shiny. And technically legal. <<


I don't think it's reasonable to put a boxy Queen Anne's bridge on these ships, as Atlantis hasn't gone that route with any other of it's new builds or modernizations. Not even with it's cruisers, as I recall offhand.

Is Atlantis planning anything like that in the future for other rebuilds/new builds? Or is it going to be evolutions of the Memnon style tower?