WesWorld

Bush Class, Denmark Sloop laid down 1936

Displacement:
1,195 t light; 1,268 t standard; 1,500 t normal; 1,686 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
333.97 ft / 320.00 ft x 34.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
101.79 m / 97.54 m x 10.36 m x 3.05 m

Armament:
6 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (3x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 364 lbs / 165 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,546 shp / 7,867 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 418 tons

Complement:
119 - 156

Cost:
£0.640 million / $2.561 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 45 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 39 tons, 2.6 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 34 tons, 2.3 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 296 tons, 19.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 724 tons, 48.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 305 tons, 20.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 6.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,113 lbs / 959 Kg = 40.1 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.483
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.41 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Stern: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Average freeboard: 12.51 ft / 3.81 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.7 %
Waterplane Area: 7,136 Square feet or 663 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 61 lbs/sq ft or 297 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.00
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

60 Depth Charges carried

Zephir class, French Sloop laid down 1936

Displacement:
1,171 t light; 1,269 t standard; 1,522 t normal; 1,725 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
328.64 ft / 318.24 ft x 33.79 ft x 10.01 ft (normal load)
100.17 m / 97.00 m x 10.30 m x 3.05 m

Armament:
6 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (3x2 guns), 61.73lbs / 28.00kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
4 - 0.55" / 14.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1936 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 394 lbs / 179 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
4 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Conning tower: 1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,054 shp / 7,500 Kw = 23.61 kts
Range 10,800nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 455 tons

Complement:
121 - 158

Cost:
£0.613 million / $2.450 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 43 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 16 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 282 tons, 18.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 730 tons, 48.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 352 tons, 23.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 6.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,330 lbs / 1,057 Kg = 44.2 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.51 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m (8.86 ft / 2.70 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Stern: 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
- Average freeboard: 13.58 ft / 4.14 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.4 %
Waterplane Area: 7,165 Square feet or 666 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 149 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 58 lbs/sq ft or 282 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.60
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

ASDIC: 10 tons
Depth charges: 30 tons
Misc weight: 60 tons

These 2 are so close, I think we could end up with the designers wielding hand-bags at 5 paces

thump!! "it's my design, you cossack!!"splat!!
slap!! "Dream on, pig farmer!!"whap!!
blam "you couldn't draw the dole!!"kapow!!
biff!! "Oh, go play with your Lego!!"thud!!

Speaking of Lego, I haven't seen anything in the Danish news articles mentioning it! Shame on you!!!

1935 news still to go to press.

It will be the toy sensation of the christmas season.

Russian Sloop laid down 1936

Displacement:
1,346 t light; 1,452 t standard; 1,782 t normal; 2,045 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
352.85 ft / 344.49 ft x 35.60 ft x 10.17 ft (normal load)
107.55 m / 105.00 m x 10.85 m x 3.10 m

Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (3x2 guns), 79.37lbs / 36.00kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in a deck mount with hoist
on side amidships, all raised guns
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
4 - 0.55" / 14.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 495 lbs / 225 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
4 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,723 shp / 8,000 Kw = 23.61 kts
Range 12,800nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 593 tons

Complement:
136 - 178

Cost:
£0.704 million / $2.815 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 53 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 16 tons, 0.9 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 301 tons, 16.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 877 tons, 49.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 436 tons, 24.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 5.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,010 lbs / 1,365 Kg = 44.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.52

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.68 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.39 ft / 5.30 m (9.19 ft / 2.80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.5 %
Waterplane Area: 8,170 Square feet or 759 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 156 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs/sq ft or 306 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.25
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Then I decided "The French need it more, actually." So I loaded her up with 120s instead of 130s, and 40mm AA instead of 37mm, trimmed her dimensions some, and yes, she's very similar to the Bush class...

And to prove it, note the torpedos... The Russians use 530mm, the French use 550mm...

Quoted

And to prove it, note the torpedos... The Russians use 530mm, the French use 550mm...

*Looks at design*
I think that that is no longer the case.

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green
These 2 are so close, I think we could end up with the designers wielding hand-bags at 5 paces

thump!! "it's my design, you cossack!!"splat!!
slap!! "Dream on, pig farmer!!"whap!!
blam "you couldn't draw the dole!!"kapow!!
biff!! "Oh, go play with your Lego!!"thud!!

Having fun visualizing this...

It'll be corrected to the 550mm torpedos when I start building 'em.

Hell, I'll take a stab at a similar design.

Albatross , Atlantean Sloop laid down 1936

Displacement:
1,243 t light; 1,315 t standard; 1,579 t normal; 1,789 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
332.47 ft / 325.00 ft x 34.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
101.34 m / 99.06 m x 10.36 m x 3.05 m

Armament:
6 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (3x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (3 mounts), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (3 mounts), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1936 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1936 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 284 lbs / 129 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
5 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.58" / 40 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,439 shp / 7,788 Kw = 23.75 kts
Range 11,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 474 tons

Complement:
124 - 162

Cost:
£0.603 million / $2.411 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 22 tons, 1.4 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 17 tons, 1.1 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 293 tons, 18.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 793 tons, 50.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 336 tons, 21.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 6.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,762 lbs / 1,253 Kg = 60.6 x 4.5 " / 114 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.62

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.52 ft / 6.25 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.42 ft / 5.31 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.42 ft / 5.31 m (10.42 ft / 3.18 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.42 ft / 3.18 m
- Stern: 10.42 ft / 3.18 m
- Average freeboard: 14.17 ft / 4.32 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.2 %
Waterplane Area: 7,362 Square feet or 684 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 159 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 290 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 2.91
- Overall: 1.07
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

See-ing an arms race among the "little ships"!!

I'll build mine out of Lego!

Guess we can speak of "blocky" design then?

A very high "Block Co-efficient".

See, there is a reason for my title..... ;o)

"builder of the LEGO fleet"!

Now where did I leave all my lawyers?

Mexico is going to have to sue.



General Alvaro Obregon
Venustiano Carranza

Obregon class, Mexico Gunboat laid down 1930

Displacement:
1,471 t light; 1,540 t standard; 1,872 t normal; 2,138 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
320.00 ft / 320.00 ft x 35.00 ft x 13.00 ft (normal load)
97.54 m / 97.54 m x 10.67 m x 3.96 m

Armament:
6 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (3x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1930 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (1x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
Weight of broadside 378 lbs / 171 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 14,084 shp / 10,507 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 598 tons

Complement:
141 - 184

Cost:
£0.631 million / $2.524 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 47 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 14 tons, 0.8 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 14 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 427 tons, 22.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 882 tons, 47.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 401 tons, 21.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 5.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,676 lbs / 1,214 Kg = 42.8 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.71

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Mid (40 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarterdeck (11 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 15.67 ft / 4.78 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.6 %
Waterplane Area: 7,144 Square feet or 664 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 139 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 295 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.85
- Longitudinal: 4.21
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Carries 1 seaplane

Good thing I didn't use the 5.1" DP mount. I'd be dealing with angry Mexicans instead of the Danes.