WesWorld

Wait a minute, your saying 55mm is ok and 57mm is not?

Now see, this is why I'm buying foreign or OTL. People have already hashed it out by the time I get around to buying!

Just to make my possition clear (again), the Atlantean 57mm gun is not a dedicated ATG, its designed with HE rounds in mind, 57mm is merely the caliber chosen and the HE rounds will not be a resounding success.

Atlantis doesn't possess a TD with a 57mm gun, in fact my AT gun arsenal in general is practically non existant. I plan to list an AT rifle as the current AT weapon and most likely future plans to adopt a 37mm AT gun will follow. A dedicated 57mm AT gun will follow historical developement.

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Originally posted by Vukovlad
No the problem is that if it isnt Italy/Germany/Atlantis then it is unacceptable

Please elaborate what you mean by that.

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Originally posted by Vukovlad
No the problem is that if it isnt Italy/Germany/Atlantis then it is unacceptable

I would advise retraction of that highly inflamitory remark.

Inflammatory in what way?

Contraprops and 2500 Hp engine from Italy no problem, All 12,7mm armament on a patrol aircraft (US) no problem, Armored Halftracks from Germany A-Okey

Heavy armament on a Heavy bomber (108 not the later version) hanging offense, 1500 Hp engines GW, Russia and others horribly a-historical, Armored Halftracks Denmark argh kill the heretic

Your wrong on all accounts, again....

We stil haven't agreed that contra rotating props is A-Ok on Italian aircraft.

I'd love to elaborate on your 12.5mm MG arguement, but riddle me this, why should Persia (or a private firm for that matter) feild medium bombers with 8x12.5mm MG's while a nation such as Atlantis, who clearly has a far greater industrial capacity feilds heavy bombers with just 4x7.7mm MG's?

Does that make sence?

Persia simply dosn't have the Industry that the larger nations do. In Wesworld, Atlantis has more Naval factory's than the U.S., thats just the way Canis played things out, prefering to refit ships rather than expand on an infrastructure we decided from the outset to downsize slightly.

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Originally posted by Vukovlad
Inflammatory in what way?

Contraprops and 2500 Hp engine from Italy no problem, All 12,7mm armament on a patrol aircraft (US) no problem, Armored Halftracks from Germany A-Okey

Heavy armament on a Heavy bomber (108 not the later version) hanging offense, 1500 Hp engines GW, Russia and others horribly a-historical, Armored Halftracks Denmark argh kill the heretic

I believe the 2500hp contra engine was nixed. The Danish vehicle is NOT a halftrack if I understand correctly, but a proper APC.

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Originally posted by Brockpaine
The Danish vehicle is NOT a halftrack if I understand correctly, but a proper APC.

Look at the picture, it is pratically a copy of the real life White Halftrack M2/M3

Like Wes, I feel I should make a few things clear.....

Halftracks -
1/ The only models with roofs are the Command vehicles, and the yet to be decided upon Ambulance version.

2/ The version with the mortar, what's so crazy?
Bear in mind the world we are all running around in in FAR from real life. A 100mm mortar would require a vehicle to get it and it's ammo around anyway, so why not do it this way?

Tanks - Stag/Tiger Beetle -
1/ To develope a turret capable of taking the 57mm (which is being developed from the Iberian 57mm because neither nation have a 55mm) would take too long for the Danish Army, these vehicles are a stop-gap, to allow the fielding of a larger weapon, comparable with other nations weapons. Having then redesigned the Bille chassis to take the bigger gun, it would be sensible to use it for other uses.

2/ The others are proposed ideas, as the designers realised that the Bille's basic chassis can be developed into other vehicles: nothing is decided, they exist only on paper, they may never exist.



[SIZE=3]And anyway, all of these are just "Puff Pieces", something to fill in our nations. It has no bearing on the SIM, which is a naval one.[/SIZE]

I'm off to play Risk, at least the PC won't give me any grief!!

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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Your wrong on all accounts, again....

We stil haven't agreed that contra rotating props is A-Ok on Italian aircraft.

I'd love to elaborate on your 12.5mm MG arguement, but riddle me this, why should Persia (or a private firm for that matter) feild medium bombers with 8x12.5mm MG's while a nation such as Atlantis, who clearly has a far greater industrial capacity feilds heavy bombers with just 4x7.7mm MG's?

Does that make sence?

Persia simply dosn't have the Industry that the larger nations do. In Wesworld, Atlantis has more Naval factory's than the U.S., thats just the way Canis played things out, prefering to refit ships rather than expand on an infrastructure we decided from the outset to downsize slightly.

So the ten G.50 that are going to be ordered is a figment of my imagination?

And the other argument is midboggling Atlantis decides not to arm its aircraft hence no one else may?

Its not mind boggling at all. Aircraft are still vulnerable to 7.7mm guns, 12.5mm in excessive amounts is far past overkill, its meglamaniacal.

Atlantis and others have decided that 4x7.7mm and the odd larger caliber MG is more than enough, while Persia uses their crystal ball and decides that 8x12.5mm is the way to go in 1936.

Next your going to tell me that Persia can build nukes in 1945 simply because the U.S. can because thats the logic your using.

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Originally posted by Commodore Green

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
The Danish vehicle is NOT a halftrack if I understand correctly, but a proper APC.

Look at the picture, it is pratically a copy of the real life White Halftrack M2/M3

Oh, um. I thought the Beetle Mk.1 was an APC.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Its not mind boggling at all. Aircraft are still vulnerable to 7.7mm guns, 12.5mm in excessive amounts is far past overkill, its meglamaniacal.

Atlantis and others have decided that 4x7.7mm and the odd larger caliber MG is more than enough, while Persia uses their crystal ball and decides that 8x12.5mm is the way to go in 1936.

Next your going to tell me that Persia can build nukes in 1945 simply because the U.S. can because thats the logic your using.

So state that in a Rule unless you are of the BIG Three you can only have obsolete designs (compared to B3), 4 x 12,7 on a PATROL aircraft not excessive, 8x 12,7 on a HEAVY BOMBER excessive...

But its cool now I know the rules

For the record, I have in the past tried to be an equal-opportunity critiquer. One advantage of posting a design is to show off, another is to get advice on how it might be improved. I have looked at it as the same as checking out a ship and observing the belt doesn't cover the vitals, or there is a tweak to improve it.- something you do as time/interest allow. I do tend to refrain from Satsuma designs due to the conflict of interest.

As for Italian/German/Atlantis thing, you should have read more old threads before making that statement because it does not hold up.
Many players have had many designs posted and accepted as fine, others needed little tweaks.

For my part, I know I've PM'd SA about an aircraft, disagreed with Hrolf on his 5cm gun, and have objected to numerous Italian designs. RA has been very good about holding rational discussions, patient about explaining details and still has modified or restricted many applications.

As for the US patrol aircraft..guns? I don't recall a discussion on that. If you thought it was out of line or unreasonable, then I hope you stated that there.

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green
I'm off to play Risk, at least the PC won't give me any grief!!

Heh my scheduled "RISK" night is coming up. Long tradition started when a friend needed to watch his kid while his wife worked her shift at the hospital. Figured he could invite friends to play risk and babysit at the same time.

Woah woah woah here

First of all, it was me who suggested to GW to put the 13 guns on the heavy bomber. Seeing as that idea got a lot of flack, Ive decided to go back to the original one for my order.

Second of all, those of us who are playing smaller nations are going to have to realize that we can't compete with the rest of the larger nations. It's simply not realistic for Romania for example to be a world leader in aerospace design. Anymore than it is reasonable that Poland is going to be a leader in Tank design. However, that doesn't mean we have to settle for obsolete designs. Obsolete, in my view means flying designs that are 10+ years behind the rest of the world. In my view, the smaller nations should be 2 to 5 years behind the larger ones, actually, Romania's will be right about where the UK was originally, introducing its new interceptor in 1937.

Now everyone be nice.

Mmmkay, you know what? We all know there are no rules governing who can design what, just common sence.

Seeing as your version of common sence is the minority here 12x12.5mm MG is excessive, as thats what the majority have determined as well as the mods.

As a mod I've allowed you considerable leeway in your argumentative and aggresive posts so I'd appreciate a little less sarcasm and a few more facts to build your case. It might also help when arguing against other percived excesses in designs.

So in short yes, the GW heavy bomber with 12x12.5mm MG is a meglamaniacal design because it mounts more heavy MG's than the real world B-17 which was considered the cream of the crop for its time.

Sorry you don't agree but thats the way it is.

...and you still haven't told me why Persia can build the same things as the larger more industrialized nations.

Maybe it is because Japan is sharing its technology with its allies?

... probably falls under Article 4 of SATSUMA: "The Contracting Powers shall politically and economically promote the forming of joint ventures in the following areas: the marketing of raw materials and products, the exploitation of natural resources, and the development of technologies."

Could be wrong though...

First of all Persia isnt building anything. Secondly the Type 108 original not the 12x 12,7mm version got alot of flak for an armament that is a slightly modified TB-7 armament.

No more arguments from me