WesWorld

The CNDO presents a costal Submarine.

Type: WU I (Coastal Submarine)
Displacement: 254 tons surfaced
300 tons dived
dimensions: 40.9 x 4,1 x 3,8 m
crew: 25 Mann
armament: one 20mm canon & 3 533mm Torpedotubs
engine: Diesel- & E-Motors; 2 shafts
range: surfaced 3700 km with 8 kn
speed: 13 kn surfaced / 6,9 kn under water

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China Submarine laid down 1935

Displacement:
248 t light; 254 t standard; 268 t normal; 279 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
134,19 ft / 134,19 ft x 13,45 ft x 11,81 ft (normal load)
40,90 m / 40,90 m x 4,10 m x 3,60 m

Armament:
1 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose gun in deck mount
on centreline aft
Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 500
3 - 21,0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Conning tower: 0,79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 463 shp / 345 Kw = 13,00 kts
Range 3.700nm at 8,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 25 tons

Complement:
33 - 43

Cost:
£0,054 million / $0,215 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
Armour: 1 tons, 0,3%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,3%
Machinery: 13 tons, 4,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 135 tons, 50,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 20 tons, 7,3%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 37,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9 lbs / 4 Kg = 35,2 x 0,8 " / 20 mm shells or 0,0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0,69
Metacentric height 0,1 ft / 0,0 m
Roll period: 18,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,440
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,98 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11,58 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Mid (50%): 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Stern: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Average freeboard: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 190,4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0,0%
Waterplane Area: 1.142 Square feet or 106 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 211%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 318 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 3,04
- Longitudinal: 3,31
- Overall: 3,07
Caution: Poor stability - excessive risk of capsizing
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Quoted

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0,69

Stability must be 1.0 or higherwith the trim set at 50.

You might get there by reducing the misc weight some, and adjusting the hull dimensions.

There are some Russian sub designs of similar size you might want to take a look at, in the Encyclopedia section.

Thanks a lot.

Yes, subs are a very hard nut

Theres a spreadsheet for submarines lying around somewhere on this website. Its far better than SS.

I found a link but it didn't work

http://www.geocities.com/greglocock/subsim.xls

That shows SS:

Type IIc (Costal Sub)
Displacement:
349 t light; 356 t standard; 373 t normal; 387 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
144,36 ft / 144,36 ft x 16,08 ft x 12,80 ft (normal load)
44,00 m / 44,00 m x 4,90 m x 3,90 m

Armament:
2 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mount
on centreline forward
Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 500
3 - 21,0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:

- Conning tower: 0,79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 321 shp / 240 Kw = 11,20 kts
Range 3.700nm at 8,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 31 tons

Complement:
42 - 55

Cost:
£0,069 million / $0,275 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
Armour: 1 tons, 0,2%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,2%
Machinery: 9 tons, 2,4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 269 tons, 71,9%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 25 tons, 6,6%
Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 18,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
288 lbs / 131 Kg = 1.179,1 x 0,8 " / 20 mm shells or 0,5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,02
Metacentric height 0,3 ft / 0,1 m
Roll period: 11,6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,440
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,98 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12,01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Mid (50%): 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Stern: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Average freeboard: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65,6%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0,0%
Waterplane Area: 1.468 Square feet or 136 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 417%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 522 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 4,42
- Longitudinal: 4,80
- Overall: 4,46
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability



and that's with the subsim.xls:

Date: 1935
Type: Costal
misc wt: 70
Gun cal cam: 2
ElecHP: 300
DieselHP: 700

=> Crew: 22

Length: 44,0
Beam: 4,9
Depth: 3,9

Crush depth: 200
sigma: 670

#TT: 3
mines: 0
Tons Oil: 40
Tons battery: 30

Cruise speed: 11,2
Submerged speed: 4

=> Range: 3711 surfaced
=> Range: 44 submerged




Comments welcome !!

I'd prefer that we use SS for sub designs as not every one uses the spreadsheet already presented.

No problem, i have both

What do you think about my redesign ?

Comparable to my own R-62 design, though its hard to tell as your design doesn't have a "laid down" date.

Also with subs you'l need the following to calculate its operational dive depths:

Quoted

Multiply composite hull strength times 100 to
get operational diving depth in feet. (Multiply by
30 for depth in metres.) Emergency diving depth
is 1.6 times operational depth; crush depth is 2.5
times operational depth

When you've calculated the dive depths you can edit your SS file to display them.

The rules/advise/guidelines for doing subs in SS2 seem to be all over the boards.

Any chance the less fortunate among us can get a single post stickied somewhere with everything we need to know to sim a sub?

I can do that, certainly.

Type IIc (Costal Sub) laid down 1935

Displacement:
349 t light; 356 t standard; 373 t normal; 387 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
144,36 ft / 144,36 ft x 16,08 ft x 12,80 ft (normal load)
44,00 m / 44,00 m x 4,90 m x 3,90 m

Armament:
2 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mount
on centreline forward
Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 500
3 - 21,0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:

- Conning tower: 0,79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 321 shp / 240 Kw = 11,20 kts
Range 3.700nm at 8,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 31 tons

Complement:
21

Cost:
£0,069 million / $0,275 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
Armour: 1 tons, 0,2%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,2%
Machinery: 9 tons, 2,4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 269 tons, 71,9%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 25 tons, 6,6%
Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 18,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
288 lbs / 131 Kg = 1.179,1 x 0,8 " / 20 mm shells or 0,5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,02
Metacentric height 0,3 ft / 0,1 m
Roll period: 11,6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,440
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,98 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12,01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Mid (50%): 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Stern: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
- Average freeboard: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65,6%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0,0%
Waterplane Area: 1.468 Square feet or 136 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 417%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 522 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 4,42
- Longitudinal: 4,80
- Overall: 4,46

operational diving depth = 446 feet or 134m
emergency diving depth = 714 feet or 214m
crush depth = 1115 feet or 335m