WesWorld

[OOC: This should be regarded as OOC-information. Some of the designs have already been released earlier but to give a summary they have been mentioned again.]

The fighting in South America has and will cost the RSAN dearly. Many units sunk or damaged are of the destroyer category. So what´s necessary is an easy to build and simple design allowing mass-production.

RSAN designers envision two variants. One build as an anti-ship weapon to work in the van while the other will be more like a small multi-purpose unit that can also act as a decent escort.

Variant A:



TB35, South African Torpedo Boat laid down 1935

Displacement:
1.211 t light; 1.269 t standard; 1.412 t normal; 1.527 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
336,42 ft / 321,52 ft x 34,45 ft x 11,15 ft (normal load)
102,54 m / 98,00 m x 10,50 m x 3,40 m

Armament:
4 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 260 lbs / 118 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
10 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,38" / 35 mm 0,59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 37.533 shp / 28.000 Kw = 34,82 kts
Range 4.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 258 tons

Complement:
114 - 149

Cost:
£0,871 million / $3,483 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 32 tons, 2,3%
Armour: 14 tons, 1,0%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 14 tons, 1,0%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 724 tons, 51,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 425 tons, 30,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 201 tons, 14,3%
Miscellaneous weights: 15 tons, 1,1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
339 lbs / 154 Kg = 5,4 x 5,0 " / 127 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
Metacentric height 1,2 ft / 0,4 m
Roll period: 13,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,80

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,400
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20,86 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 88
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forecastle (30%): 18,70 ft / 5,70 m
- Mid (50%): 10,83 ft / 3,30 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 10,83 ft / 3,30 m
- Stern: 10,83 ft / 3,30 m
- Average freeboard: 14,49 ft / 4,42 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 54,9%
Waterplane Area: 7.076 Square feet or 657 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 58%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 158 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,50
- Longitudinal: 2,10
- Overall: 0,57
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather


Variant B:



TB35 - MP variant, South African Torpedo Boat laid down 1935

Displacement:
1.210 t light; 1.269 t standard; 1.412 t normal; 1.527 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
336,42 ft / 321,52 ft x 34,45 ft x 11,15 ft (normal load)
102,54 m / 98,00 m x 10,50 m x 3,40 m

Armament:
4 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
6 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (1x6 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mount
on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
Weight of broadside 261 lbs / 118 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
5 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,38" / 35 mm 0,59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 37.533 shp / 28.000 Kw = 34,82 kts
Range 4.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 258 tons

Complement:
114 - 149

Cost:
£0,872 million / $3,487 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 33 tons, 2,3%
Armour: 14 tons, 1,0%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 14 tons, 1,0%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 725 tons, 51,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 428 tons, 30,3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 202 tons, 14,3%
Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
356 lbs / 162 Kg = 5,7 x 5,0 " / 127 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
Metacentric height 1,3 ft / 0,4 m
Roll period: 12,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,81

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,400
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20,86 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 88
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forecastle (30%): 18,70 ft / 5,70 m
- Mid (50%): 10,83 ft / 3,30 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 10,83 ft / 3,30 m
- Stern: 10,83 ft / 3,30 m
- Average freeboard: 14,49 ft / 4,42 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184,7%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99,9%
Waterplane Area: 7.076 Square feet or 657 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 58%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 160 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,50
- Longitudinal: 2,12
- Overall: 0,58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather



Comments welcome....

Another category that suffers a lot are the mine sweepers. The design of 1935 is very similar to the class of 1928 known as the Cactus-class. However, there is more room and weight reserve for more equipement on the new class. Again, for the easy of use, the vessel will be coal fired.

Minensucher 35, South African Minesweeper laid down 1935

Displacement:
576 t light; 602 t standard; 793 t normal; 947 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
214,16 ft / 206,69 ft x 26,25 ft x 8,53 ft (normal load)
65,28 m / 63,00 m x 8,00 m x 2,60 m

Armament:
1 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 71 lbs / 32 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 220

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,38" / 35 mm 0,79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0,59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2.681 ihp / 2.000 Kw = 18,37 kts
Range 7.000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 345 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
74 - 97

Cost:
£0,258 million / $1,033 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 9 tons, 1,1%
Armour: 5 tons, 0,6%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 5 tons, 0,6%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 165 tons, 20,8%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 298 tons, 37,5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 217 tons, 27,4%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 12,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1.106 lbs / 502 Kg = 17,7 x 5,0 " / 127 mm shells or 0,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
Metacentric height 0,9 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 11,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,28

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,88 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16,54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16,01 ft / 4,88 m
- Forecastle (20%): 14,37 ft / 4,38 m
- Mid (40%): 14,37 ft / 4,38 m (6,50 ft / 1,98 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 6,50 ft / 1,98 m
- Stern: 6,50 ft / 1,98 m
- Average freeboard: 9,78 ft / 2,98 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94,9%
Waterplane Area: 4.135 Square feet or 384 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 157%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 45 lbs/sq ft or 218 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,16
- Longitudinal: 2,82
- Overall: 1,26
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

To compensate losses among coastal forces a new class of submarine chasers and small multi-purpose ships will be laid down starting in the second half of 1935. The so called UJ35-class features diesel engines for quick respond times and to reduce crew size. Armament will be similar to older classes but a completely new hull design will be used. Previous classes had a very high free board forward to enhance seakeeping but it turned out these high bows caused stress to the overall hull and added to the small vessels top-heaviness. So the new class will have a much lower bow also making her look more "main-stream".



U-Jäger 35, South African ASW Launch laid down 1935

Displacement:
196 t light; 202 t standard; 235 t normal; 261 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
140,31 ft / 133,86 ft x 22,31 ft x 6,56 ft (normal load)
42,77 m / 40,80 m x 6,80 m x 2,00 m

Armament:
1 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
2 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
2 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 25 lbs / 11 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2.681 shp / 2.000 Kw = 20,33 kts
Range 3.800nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 59 tons

Complement:
29 - 39

Cost:
£0,103 million / $0,411 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3 tons, 1,3%
Armour: 2 tons, 1,0%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 2 tons, 1,0%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 76 tons, 32,4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 104 tons, 44,3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 39 tons, 16,7%
Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 4,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
239 lbs / 108 Kg = 11,5 x 3,5 " / 88 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 0,6 ft / 0,2 m
Roll period: 11,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,13

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0,420
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11,57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
- Forecastle (35%): 13,12 ft / 4,00 m (7,87 ft / 2,40 m aft of break)
- Mid (50%): 7,87 ft / 2,40 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 7,87 ft / 2,40 m
- Stern: 7,87 ft / 2,40 m
- Average freeboard: 10,35 ft / 3,16 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 120,0%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96,3%
Waterplane Area: 1.862 Square feet or 173 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 135 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,78
- Longitudinal: 9,22
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

With the Argentineans dominating the rivers in South America there is a reason for South Africa to answer this thread and answer it quickly. Part of the answer will be a class of at least four small and easy to build river gun boats. These will be relatively heavy armed and armored to gain some immunity against usual light guns and field artillery. Should the class proof successful more units may be build.



Viktor Garcia, laid down 1935

Displacement:
130 t light; 139 t standard; 148 t normal; 156 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
132,74 ft / 131,23 ft x 22,97 ft x 3,44 ft (normal load)
40,46 m / 40,00 m x 7,00 m x 1,05 m

Armament:
2 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 43 lbs / 19 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 245

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0,79" / 20 mm 95,47 ft / 29,10 m 3,94 ft / 1,20 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 112% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 0,79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 1 shaft, 600 ihp / 448 Kw = 14,92 kts
Range 2.000nm at 8,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 17 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
20 - 27

Cost:
£0,072 million / $0,289 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5 tons, 3,6%
Armour: 18 tons, 12,1%
- Belts: 13 tons, 8,5%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 5 tons, 3,3%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,3%
Machinery: 37 tons, 24,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 68 tons, 45,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 18 tons, 12,4%
Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 1,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
191 lbs / 87 Kg = 9,2 x 3,5 " / 88 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,2 m
Roll period: 10,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,82

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,500
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11,46 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 86
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 8,53 ft / 2,60 m
- Forecastle (20%): 5,91 ft / 1,80 m
- Mid (50%): 4,92 ft / 1,50 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 4,92 ft / 1,50 m
- Stern: 5,25 ft / 1,60 m
- Average freeboard: 5,50 ft / 1,68 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94,6%
Waterplane Area: 1.930 Square feet or 179 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,93
- Longitudinal: 1,76
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

To improve the RSANs situation regarding sea-going escorts a new class of light destroyers (LD) will also be laid down. These units are designed to provide some small multi-purpose vessels that have both anti-ship as well as anti-submarine capabilities. A relatively heavy AA suit will further guard these light destoryers and their protégés.



LD35, laid down 1935

Displacement:
716 t light; 761 t standard; 865 t normal; 948 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
253,82 ft / 246,06 ft x 26,90 ft x 11,15 ft (normal load)
77,37 m / 75,00 m x 8,20 m x 3,40 m

Armament:
4 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (2x2 guns), 46,40lbs / 21,05kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
6 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4 mounts), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 195 lbs / 88 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,38" / 35 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 1,18" / 30 mm
3rd: 0,59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 18.767 shp / 14.000 Kw = 30,64 kts
Range 6.500nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 187 tons

Complement:
79 - 103

Cost:
£0,505 million / $2,018 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 24 tons, 2,8%
Armour: 15 tons, 1,7%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 15 tons, 1,7%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 383 tons, 44,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 279 tons, 32,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 149 tons, 17,2%
Miscellaneous weights: 15 tons, 1,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
245 lbs / 111 Kg = 5,3 x 4,5 " / 115 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 12,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,80

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,410
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,15 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18,25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Forecastle (25%): 16,73 ft / 5,10 m
- Mid (41%): 16,73 ft / 5,10 m (8,86 ft / 2,70 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
- Stern: 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
- Average freeboard: 12,55 ft / 3,82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 167,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 65,7%
Waterplane Area: 4.255 Square feet or 395 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 150 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,50
- Longitudinal: 3,26
- Overall: 0,60
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Restrictions due to the Cleito Treaty have caused the submarine fleet of the RSAN to be badly out dated today. There are no modern ocean-going fleet submarines available which is why the M-class is introduced in 1935. The class by itself was not meant to answer the fighting in South America but timing of the pre-conflict planning put them on the list for 1935.

M Type, South African Submarine laid down 1935

Displacement:
1.085 t light; 1.120 t standard; 1.454 t normal; 1.720 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
226,84 ft / 226,38 ft x 29,53 ft x 19,03 ft (normal load)
69,14 m / 69,00 m x 9,00 m x 5,80 m

Armament:
1 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
2 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
Weight of broadside 36 lbs / 16 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
6 - 21,0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 4.634 shp / 3.457 Kw = 18,91 kts
Range 14.000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 600 tons

Complement:
117 - 153

Cost:
£0,306 million / $1,225 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0,3%
Armour: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 132 tons, 9,1%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 699 tons, 48,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 368 tons, 25,3%
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 17,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
949 lbs / 431 Kg = 26,9 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 12,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 3 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,400
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15,05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0,98 ft / 0,30 m
- Forecastle (20%): 0,33 ft / 0,10 m
- Mid (50%): 0,33 ft / 0,10 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 0,33 ft / 0,10 m
- Stern: 0,33 ft / 0,10 m
- Average freeboard: 0,38 ft / 0,12 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83,2%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 2,2%
Waterplane Area: 4.115 Square feet or 382 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 265%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 535 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 2,63
- Longitudinal: 3,00
- Overall: 2,67
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Combatants are not the only vessels to get sunk or damaged so a new tender laid down will help to compensate expected losses. Like the M-class the TD35-class was designed pre-war and should have increased the number of available tenders over all now that the tender fleet of the RSAN is undergoing refits and modernizations class by class. Self-defense capabilities have been increased as some kind of protective measure for both the ship and the units she shepherds.

TD35, South African Tender laid down 1935

Displacement:
5.445 t light; 5.616 t standard; 6.611 t normal; 7.407 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
393,52 ft / 383,86 ft x 65,62 ft x 16,40 ft (normal load)
119,94 m / 117,00 m x 20,00 m x 5,00 m

Armament:
4 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (2x2 guns), 46,40lbs / 21,05kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 195 lbs / 89 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 350

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 1,57" / 40 mm
4th: 0,59" / 15 mm - -
5th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 13.405 shp / 10.000 Kw = 20,10 kts
Range 10.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1.791 tons

Complement:
366 - 476

Cost:
£1,346 million / $5,384 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 24 tons, 0,4%
Armour: 17 tons, 0,3%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 17 tons, 0,3%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 381 tons, 5,8%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.922 tons, 29,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.166 tons, 17,6%
Miscellaneous weights: 3.100 tons, 46,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10.340 lbs / 4.690 Kg = 222,8 x 4,5 " / 115 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 3,2 ft / 1,0 m
Roll period: 15,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,58

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,560
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2,62 ft / 0,80 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 20,67 ft / 6,30 m
- Mid (45%): 20,67 ft / 6,30 m (12,47 ft / 3,80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 12,47 ft / 3,80 m
- Stern: 12,47 ft / 3,80 m
- Average freeboard: 16,60 ft / 5,06 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144,3%
Waterplane Area: 17.744 Square feet or 1.648 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 162%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 380 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,81
- Overall: 1,02
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Comments on two designs.

First if I were the RSAN I'd combine both emergency destroyer program designs into one. I'd prefere a 5th 5" gun and a sextuple torpedo launcher. Esthetically the bridge structure seems tall height wise and short length wise. Also the light AA seems to be consintrated aft with limited forward firing arcs.

Second I'd expect the RSAN to design some smaller cheaper sub hunters for coastal duties, something like the U.S. 110 ton subchasers.

I agree on the Destroyers, there just is not much difference between the two types, with virtually identical costs. I think it would make more sense to simplify and go with one class.

Further, I think they are to small. A slightly larger ship with an extra 5" gun would be superior, and could manage more range. Using GoogleEarth, the distance from Buenos Aries to Capetown is about 3,660nm, and to Duoala is about 4,400nm. Which means you have 0 tactical flexibility to deviate from the shortest course if making transit, unless you have oilers in tow.

The ASW launches would seem to fit SA's observation regarding Subchasers.

I continue to like the light destroyers. I do wonder why the RSAN sees the need for mounts and hoists on the LDs and not the DDs.

The gunboat is interesting. I should point out that the belt, while 115%, does not fully cover the critical spaces. This is because the engines and fuel take up 118%, which I keep interpreting as protruding above the waterline. If that interpretation is correct, then the armor belt is not high enough. May I suggest 12kts might be suitable?

To schill for my naval export business : If the RSAN feels that their skills with Sub design are rusty, the Dutch O-5 Zwaardvisch (schnorkel not included) might serve. They were designed after the building of the K-17 and O-1 classes, as well as the building and testing of an experimental submarine.

I to will eventually get to lay down more tenders

Is the war going to last long enough to warrant the emergency construction of destroyers that'll take over a year to complete?

It'll probably be better to either;

- repeat the previous class now

- wait until the war has finished and then spend 6 months working out how to incorporate the experience into a new design.

- or both

The minesweeper is rather heavily armed with that 128mm gun. Any particular reason for it?

For the gunboat I'd armour the sides of the superstructure. That is what is likely to get hit. Land one of the 88mm guns, probably the forwards one, in favour of a single or duple 40mm that'll be more useful.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Comments on two designs.

First if I were the RSAN I'd combine both emergency destroyer program designs into one. I'd prefere a 5th 5" gun and a sextuple torpedo launcher. Esthetically the bridge structure seems tall height wise and short length wise. Also the light AA seems to be consintrated aft with limited forward firing arcs.

Second I'd expect the RSAN to design some smaller cheaper sub hunters for coastal duties, something like the U.S. 110 ton subchasers.

Thank you for your comments.

The two designs of the war emergency torpedo boat are not very different for sure. And they are not meant to be. Using two variants of the same design eases production (even if our rules doesn´t reflect that) and offer more operational flexibility.

Quintuple launchers have just been introduced to the RSAN. Launchers with 6 tubes seem too large and heavy and (when loaded) add too much weight. I wonder if they also would be to slow to train due to their weight. There must be a reason why sixtuple launchers haven´t been installed on many designs historically. Costs set aside - which ARE a factor for a war-emergency design - there must be a drawback in practice OTL. Do you know more?

A fifth 5" gun surely would have added to the boats fire power. However, it would also have required a larger, more expensive design.

You´re right about the ships AA suit and arcs. Problem here is the limited space available forward. Historical many DDs (and to some degree cruisers too) lacked light AA guns with open arcs over their bow. That´s why planes preferred to come in from there, strafing the bridge and bombing the ship OTL. I don´t see why this should be different in WesWorld, especially given the limited experience with airborne threats.

A mini-subchaser? The RSAN fields their various R-classes. These are based on historical design launched by Germany in the 1930s and 40s. Weighting 100ts they are more or less what you´re asking for. Even though "Räumboot" referrs to mine sweeping these boats actually were mini-multi purpose units that were used for anti-sub duties in coastal waters too.

Finally a word regarding the nomenclature I use. Torpedo Boat means a (small) destroyer sized ship meant to fight surface combatants first place. Hence the use of simple and cheap SP-mounts for the guns and a powerful TT battery (10 TTs on the TB35).
Destroyers are more like small multi-purpose units. They can fight surface units as well as submarines, act as screen and scouts etc. Of course only cruiser-sized ships offer the size to build true MP-ships but destroyers are more useful in more roles than TBs are.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
I agree on the Destroyers, there just is not much difference between the two types, with virtually identical costs. I think it would make more sense to simplify and go with one class.

See my comments above. Which one would you prefer and why?

Quoted

Further, I think they are to small. A slightly larger ship with an extra 5" gun would be superior, and could manage more range. Using GoogleEarth, the distance from Buenos Aries to Capetown is about 3,660nm, and to Duoala is about 4,400nm. Which means you have 0 tactical flexibility to deviate from the shortest course if making transit, unless you have oilers in tow.

They are not meant to act as cross-Atlantic escorts but if need be can act as such. A convoys max speed of 8kn should add to their range even if their turbines will not be running with full efficiency.

The RSAN also has several islands along the sea lanes in question. So there is an easy way to refuel those ships if necessary.

Quoted

I continue to like the light destroyers. I do wonder why the RSAN sees the need for mounts and hoists on the LDs and not the DDs.

The LD35 was designed prior to the war and was to use the then introduced standard medium sized mount (secondaries on cruisers and capital ships etc.) These are simply mounts with hoists. I also rate these mounts to be partially DP with a max elevation of ~70°. So they can be used for AA to some degree and need to maintain a high ROF. Therefor a hoist is very useful. The TB35s use SP-mounts to ease production and reduce costs.

Quoted

The gunboat is interesting. I should point out that the belt, while 115%, does not fully cover the critical spaces. This is because the engines and fuel take up 118%, which I keep interpreting as protruding above the waterline. If that interpretation is correct, then the armor belt is not high enough. May I suggest 12kts might be suitable?

There we have an error on my part. I simply posted an old design version. It´s no corrected.

Quoted

To schill for my naval export business : If the RSAN feels that their skills with Sub design are rusty, the Dutch O-5 Zwaardvisch (schnorkel not included) might serve. They were designed after the building of the K-17 and O-1 classes, as well as the building and testing of an experimental submarine.

The RSAN high command thanks for the offer and will check it varefully.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
Is the war going to last long enough to warrant the emergency construction of destroyers that'll take over a year to complete?

Well, a year isn´t that long for such a unit. Note that small, less complex units wouldn´t have been able to serve the role the TBs are intended for. Especially their high speed, which allows them to serve with other DDs and fleet units, asks for some size. A small, easier to build sloop or frigate would not be capable to replace lost fleet DDs.

Quoted

It'll probably be better to either;

- repeat the previous class now

- wait until the war has finished and then spend 6 months working out how to incorporate the experience into a new design.

- or both

See above. The previous class of TBs is less capable than the new one and the last class of DDs is much larger and more expensive. So I decided to build some small DD. The design was inspired by historical DD-designs laid down for the British which seem to have thought 4 main guns are enough if one needs numbers first place.

Quoted

The minesweeper is rather heavily armed with that 128mm gun. Any particular reason for it?

Minesweeper with a 128mm gun?

The Minensucher 35 class.

With the TB-35 class I prefer variant B, though I'd move a pair of twin 20mm to abreast the bridge to give at least some forward AA arcs. Also I just noticed in the top veiw they seem to have little flare in the bow, might make them wet ships.

I'd also build hords of R class suibchasers.

The 128mm is not a caliber used in the RSAN so I wondered if I had a typo somewhere....

The 127mm gun on the MS35-class should give these units a heavier punch should they encounter either DD-sized vessels or armored units such as small CDS etc.

Hords of R-class units isn´t that simple. The capacity allowed for small untis is eaten ub by S-boat and the like and I simply havn´t enough slips to build R-class units in common fashion.

Btw, how does war economy effect the capacity of ones country to produced light crafts?

Why would you prefer variant B over A?

Looks like you'll have to outsource or buy foreign!

I would think a wartime output would also translate down to the smaller ships as well, most likely a 25% increase rather than double the output. Small wooden hulled vessels are quite time consuming to build and require skilled labour.

The B variant seems better suited to multi-tasking.

RSAN plans and the chokepoint regarding slips is likely OOC problems. However, I have covered the Belgian recession and the effects on it's ship building industry. As a result there are a number of small slips sitting unused, and the reigning monarch happens to be sympathetic to SAE.

Edit : As of Q3, the Belgian dockyards were empty, with the following vacant slips and drydocks. While the Government may seek to lay down vessels just to keep the yards active, most might be available with the primary concern being providing employment.

1 x Class 3 slip
1 x Class 3 drydock

1 x Class 2 drydock

3 x Class 1 slip
2 x Class 1 drydock

3 x Class 0 slip
1 x Class 0 drydock