WesWorld

Gothia Works Fighter Prototype





GW J-1

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1935

Description

Conventional Aircraft
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage

A bit of a medley of earlier and later sub-versions of the PBY-5.



Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 6 400 lbs
Weight (empty) 6 156 lbs

Length 24 ft
Wingspan 30 ft
Wing Area 350 sq ft
Sweep 1 degrees

Engines 1
GFM 1000
Piston

1 095 hp
at 2 500 ft


Crew 1


Typical cost $0,023 million in 1939
Total number procured 500


Performance:

Top Speed 200 kts = 230 mph
at 5 700 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 18 000 ft

Range 900 nm = 1 036 miles
with Zero lbs payload
Zero lbs released at halfway point

Climb 171 fpm

Cruise 200 kts = 230 mph
at 5 700 ft

Corner Speed 126 KIAS =
135 kts at 5 000 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 15,8 deg/sec
Radius 1 652 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 10 ft

Bypass Ratio 100,1

Engine Weight 2883 lbs
Overall Efficiency 22,5 percent

Structural Factor 1,00

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 300 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 3,25 g
Wing Taper 0,1
Wing Thickness at Root 1,7 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0,4

Number of Nacelles 0
Length 6 ft
Diameter 3 ft
Fullness 0,5

Fuselage Diameter 5 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 60 percent
Unstreamlined section 5,7 sq ft

User equipment 500 lbs

Reasonable design?

My 2 cents

Pretty much in order they appear.
Length/Wings : A bit on the small side, they are roughly the same as the Russian I-16, which means they may not scale to the picture.

Wing Area: At 350 for 6,400lbs, the wingloading is slightly low at ~18.3lbs/ft2. Some like the Italians and Japanese went for low wingloadings, but there is both a weight and drag penalty. For the weight, you might try a 290 wing for a 22lbs wingloading or smaller for higher

Supercharging: You have the engine with sea level performance at 2,500 feet, which is quite a constraint. 5,000-9,000 is reasonable for the mid 1930s.

Cruise speed : Your cruise speed is equal to your maximum speed. This both requires your engine to work harder, and gobbles fuel. Try reducing cruise speed so that the throttle number is between 40 and 80%. Your payload should increase.

Engine data: The large propeller gives both higher horsepower and greater cross sectional area. You are using a high bypass to then constrain the engine output. Try reducing the propeller to about 8 feet and you can then lower the bypass as well.

Engine weight is extremely high for the output. At 0.38hp/lb that is a very poor engine for the time.
In contrast, the 1932 R-18303 Twin Wasp had 775hp / 1,162lb for a 0.67hp/lb output, and was only 4.2 in dia.

Another comparable engine would be the 1937 Gnome-Rhone Mistral Major 14N 970hp / 1,300lb which was 4.3 dia. and had 0.74hp/lb

One could postulate that a 1,095hp/ 1,560lb engine with a 4.4' diameter and 4.6-4.8 fuselage would be reasonable.

Wing ultimate G load : The notes portion of planebuilder advocates about 10+gs for fighters, which this appears to be. The loading used might be acceptable for level bombers.

I may want to edge the wing thickness down some, not crucial.

Fuselage diameter is fine, could be adjusted down slightly, but not important.

Form however would appear incorrect. A "0" is a teardrop, which might fit an A-4 skyhawk, but not a mid 1930s radial. Something around the 0.3-.4 area.

Cross sectional area :5.7 seems high for a cowled radial, which is what your picture has. That may be related to the 10' propeller blade. There should be a suggested number next to the input. Alternately, the engine tab has both cowled and uncowled numbers displayed.

Thanks for the help!

Revised J-1 Data

GW J-1

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1935

Description

Conventional Aircraft
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage





Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 6 400 lbs
Weight (empty) 4 758 lbs

Length 24 ft
Wingspan 34 ft
Wing Area 300 sq ft
Sweep 1 degrees

Engines 1
GMW 1000
Piston

1 044 hp
at 6 000 ft


Crew 1


Typical cost $0,027 million in 1939
Total number procured 500


Performance:

Top Speed 272 kts = 313 mph
at 5 700 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 18 000 ft

Range 900 nm = 1 036 miles
with Zero lbs payload
Zero lbs released at halfway point

Climb 396 fpm

Cruise 220 kts = 253 mph
at 6 700 ft

Corner Speed 206 KIAS =
223 kts at 5 700 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 29,4 deg/sec
Radius 1 470 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 8 ft

Bypass Ratio 80,1

Engine Weight 1383 lbs
Overall Efficiency 24 percent

Structural Factor 1,00

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 350 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 9,25 g
Wing Taper 0,1
Wing Thickness at Root 1,7 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0,4

Number of Nacelles 0
Length 6 ft
Diameter 3 ft
Fullness 0,5

Fuselage Diameter 4 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0,7

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 60 percent
Unstreamlined section 4 sq ft

User equipment 400 lbs

Need Help again

GW 105

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1935

Description

Conventional Aircraft
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage





Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 8 264 lbs
Weight (empty) 4 817 lbs

Length 29,5 ft
Wingspan 33 ft
Wing Area 177 sq ft
Sweep 1 degrees

Engines 1
GWM V-1500
Piston

1 508 hp
at 8 000 ft


Crew 1


Typical cost $0,040 million in 1939
Total number procured 200


Performance:

Top Speed 290 kts = 334 mph
at 19 000 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 19 850 ft

Range 550 nm = 633 miles
with 2 326 lbs payload
2 459 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 87 fpm

Cruise 275 kts = 316 mph
at 15 000 ft

Corner Speed 280 KIAS =
356 kts at 15 700 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 18,1 deg/sec
Radius 3 808 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 7,6 ft

Bypass Ratio 56,1

Engine Weight 1520 lbs
Overall Efficiency 22,5 percent

Structural Factor 1,00

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 500 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 9,25 g
Wing Taper 0,1
Wing Thickness at Root 1 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0,4

Number of Nacelles 0
Length 6 ft
Diameter 3 ft
Fullness 0,5

Fuselage Diameter 3 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0,7

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 65 percent
Unstreamlined section 2,5 sq ft

User equipment 300 lbs

Why is this SIM plane nearly 100mph slower than the plane that it is modeled on (which BTW uses the 1300 Hp Jumo 211F)?

The cleanness is only 65 percent, move that up to around 80 and see what it does. Fullness could probably go down some. And you might be able to shrink the unstreamlined cross section a bit. Also, the propeller size is very small, I'd expect something more like a 9-10' diameter prop.

Did all you said but the propeller (the S-199 is only 8,6" high)
and it worked!

Is this acceptable?

GW 105

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1935

Description

Conventional Aircraft
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage

A bit of a medley of earlier and later sub-versions of the PBY-5.



Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 8 264 lbs
Weight (empty) 4 984 lbs

Length 29,5 ft
Wingspan 33 ft
Wing Area 177 sq ft
Sweep 1 degrees

Engines 1
GWM V-1350
Piston

1 368 hp
at 6 000 ft


Crew 1


Typical cost $0,043 million in 1939
Total number procured 200


Performance:

Top Speed 332 kts = 382 mph
at 6 000 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 19 850 ft

Range 550 nm = 633 miles
with 2 283 lbs payload
2 394 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 268 fpm

Cruise 310 kts = 357 mph
at 15 700 ft

Corner Speed 283 KIAS =
307 kts at 6 000 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 21,6 deg/sec
Radius 2 758 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 8 ft

Bypass Ratio 64,1

Engine Weight 1520 lbs
Overall Efficiency 22,5 percent

Structural Factor 0,95

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 500 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 9,50 g
Wing Taper 0,1
Wing Thickness at Root 0,7 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0,4

Number of Nacelles 0
Length 6 ft
Diameter 3 ft
Fullness 0,3

Fuselage Diameter 3 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0,3

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 85 percent
Unstreamlined section 1,5 sq ft

User equipment 200 lbs

Looking at it, the user weight (which is where weight for guns, armor, etc, goes) is pretty low, is there any planned armament? For the period, the payload's pretty good, about the same as some medium bombers, but it may drop depending on what you need for weapons weight.

I GW 105

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1935

Description

Carrier or Rough Field
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage





Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 8 264 lbs
Weight (empty) 6 419 lbs

Length 29,5 ft
Wingspan 33 ft
Wing Area 177 sq ft
Sweep 1 degrees

Engines 1
GWM V-1350
Piston

1 368 hp
at 15 000 ft


Crew 1


Typical cost $0,040 million in 1939
Total number procured 200


Performance:

Top Speed 358 kts = 412 mph
at 15 000 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 19 850 ft

Range 550 nm = 633 miles
with 874 lbs payload
915 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 2 043 fpm

Cruise 280 kts = 322 mph
at 15 700 ft

Corner Speed 283 KIAS =
308 kts at 6 000 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 21,5 deg/sec
Radius 2 766 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 8 ft

Bypass Ratio 64,1

Engine Weight 1520 lbs
Overall Efficiency 22,5 percent

Structural Factor 0,95

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 450 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 9,50 g
Wing Taper 0,1
Wing Thickness at Root 0,7 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0,4

Number of Nacelles 0
Length 6 ft
Diameter 3 ft
Fullness 0,35

Fuselage Diameter 3,5 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0,3

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 82,5 percent
Unstreamlined section 1,5 sq ft

User equipment 1 563 lbs

OK, to adjust that, you'd put 1200 pounds in the Airframe page, cell H83. You might also want to add the ammunition weight to the gun weight as well, just because that would normally carried weight.

Quite a large aircraft for the period.

You'll want to check the Climb page, you'll get higher numbers (in fpm) if you lower the speed in cell G5.

Adjusted speed and raised user weight from 1463 to 1563 Ibs, I am a bit confused by your comment on size, it is slightly larger than the AVIA S-199/ Me-109G-6

G-6
Span 32" 6,5'
Length 29" 7.5'
Height 8" 2.5'
Loaded weight 7496 lb

Some notes-

The engine looks alot like the 1940 Hispano-Suiza 12z , but the fuselage is both too small to hold the engine and likely the pilot. The narrowest cross sections seem to have been oval and averaged about 3.4-3.5 feet.

I would also adjust the powerplant K15 cell to be about 15,000 feet. That should kick your maximum speed up when you get to that altitude.

With the design shop, you are looking for export customers. You are using a conventional undercarridge which saves weight, but limits the market as it is not reinforced for rough fields and most airfields are still dirt.

As for the size- I think he is referring to the maximum weight for a fighter, most of the current wesworld ones are still in the 6,000 range. The additional weight means that even with your large engine, the rate of climb is less than sparkling. My update of the Koolhoven F.K.58 has an extremely heavy weapons loadout and climbs lethargically (makes a poor air superiority fighter, good bomber killer), but still is over 2,200fpm loaded.

The weight also means that you have a relatively high wingloading of 42 light and 47 heavy.

You can likely save some of the weight by bringing the limiting airspeed down a touch, as I don't expect you'll get near 500knts IAS even in a dive. Likewise you have a long range at a high cruise speed, try fiddling with the cruise speed and you may find a different speed results in higher payload (i.e. less fuel needed for that range).

Re: size - Yes, I was referring to the plane's weight. 6,000 pounds is on the high end currently, though that can be expected to grow in the future.

I will adjust the landing gear, cruise speed and climb. As for the engine, as i have stated this model is based on the S-199/Me-109G which has been built by Hispano Aviacion with the HS 12Z-17 and -89 engine as the HA-1112K and K1L

New SIM posted

Whoops, missed that it was supposed to *be* the 12Z, thought it was merely like the 12Z. Difference between modeling something and basing on something.

Anyhow, I won't bother you about the supercharging or max weight,

For Wesworld , first flight should not be prior to 1936 for that cleanness, we use a +5 year maximum and 1940 was 82.5. Not exactly a big deal

My point that the fuselage is to small still stands. It is just slightly too small to hold a 12Y, and I doubt the bigger 12Z was more compact. Then there is that 3.4-3.5 minimum we see in the FW-187 and P-38, where cross section could be minimized without worrying about fitting an engine.

Since I shaved off 150 Hp it is *like* the HS 12Z. Increased diameter to 3,5 and lowered cleanliness to 82,5. Increased Supercharger to 15 000 ft.

GW 106

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1935

Description

Carrier or Rough Field
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage





Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 7 800 lbs
Weight (empty) 6 028 lbs

Length 29 ft
Wingspan 35 ft
Wing Area 151 sq ft
Sweep 1 degrees

Engines 1
GWM L-1500
Piston

1 482 hp
at 16 000 ft


Crew 1


Typical cost $0,037 million in 1939
Total number procured 200


Performance:

Top Speed 345 kts = 397 mph
at 16 000 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 19 850 ft

Range 670 nm = 772 miles
with 532 lbs payload
569 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 641 fpm

Cruise 290 kts = 334 mph
at 15 700 ft

Corner Speed 286 KIAS =
301 kts at 3 700 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 22,1 deg/sec
Radius 2 630 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 9 ft

Bypass Ratio 71,1

Engine Weight 1630 lbs
Overall Efficiency 22,5 percent

Structural Factor 1,00

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 450 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 9,50 g
Wing Taper 0,1
Wing Thickness at Root 0,7 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0,4

Number of Nacelles 0
Length 6 ft
Diameter 3 ft
Fullness 0,3

Fuselage Diameter 3,9 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0,5

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 82,5 percent
Unstreamlined section 3,9 sq ft

User equipment 1 410 lbs