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Argus As 412/413

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

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1

Tuesday, November 13th 2007, 3:58pm

Argus As 412/413

Can anyone find much info on these German 24-cylinder H-block engines? The As-412 was apparently prototyped, while the -413 was merely projected.

Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

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Thursday, November 15th 2007, 2:55pm

I'll look. I seem to remember seeing something about them.

Hood

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Thursday, November 15th 2007, 4:35pm

I've hunted the web, Janes Aircraft of WWII and the Secret Projects German Fighters, Bombers etc series but found nothing other than what you already know ie 4000hp H cylinder engine.

I'm sure I've seen something though somewhere in print but I'll have to have a deeper look elsewhere.

Hrolf Hakonson

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Thursday, November 15th 2007, 7:49pm

Be interesting to see if there's any more than that to be found.

I do find the little As-410/411 series engines kind of interesting: air-cooled V-12s of up to around 600 hp. Used mostly in trainers and observation aircraft, of course, since by the time of the war their power was too low for use in warplanes, but still.

Red Admiral

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Friday, November 16th 2007, 4:03pm

http://www.airwarfareforum.com/viewtopic…s+412&start=105

I knew I'd seen it somewhere. List of complete stats for As 412 and most other German piston engines. The As 413 is merely given as "4000hp" so it's probably just a designer's wet dream.

Hrolf Hakonson

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Friday, November 16th 2007, 9:19pm

Yeah, I knew about the -413s non-built status, and it's projected horsepower, I'm hoping someone has a little more data (like projected weight, that sort of thing) or even some data on the -412 which would allow extrapolations.

Hrolf Hakonson

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Saturday, November 17th 2007, 3:42pm

Found a bit more here: http://books.google.com/books?id=OoFcHOL…E8UEkdOtRRM6dec
From that snippet, it looks like the As-413 was a 24-cylinder H-pattern engine that used the cylinders and connecting rods from the Jumo-213.

Red Admiral

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Monday, November 19th 2007, 2:43pm

If using the cylinders from the Ju-213E then

Displacement = 75L
rpm the same = 3250rpm (more or less on the limit of piston ring tech)
Power = 4000hp
Size = massive
Weight = probably around 4200lb given the dual crankshaft H arrangement

The sheer size of it would be the main problem.

Hrolf Hakonson

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Monday, November 19th 2007, 2:50pm

Yeah, BIG is a good word for it. Like you suggest, it's usefulness would be limited by it's sheer size: at that size and weight, it's not going to much better (if any) than a DB-613, which (depending on which version of the -603 you couple) could generate more than 4000 hp. Oh, well.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Hrolf Hakonson" (Nov 20th 2007, 11:53am)

Commodore Green

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Tuesday, November 20th 2007, 1:27am

What you can't use in a plane, you can always use in a boat!!!

Hrolf Hakonson

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Tuesday, November 20th 2007, 2:12am

Heh, true, but for what??? :)

Commodore Green

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Wednesday, November 21st 2007, 1:13am

Speed......
More Speed.......
EVEN MORE SPEED!!!!!!!!

Imagine a Torpedo Boat doing 60 - 70 knots....
That will cause your gunners some MAJOR headaches!!

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Commodore Green" (Nov 21st 2007, 1:14am)

Ithekro

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Wednesday, November 21st 2007, 2:20am

I can imagine said torpedo boats running into their own torpedoes...much like some of the faster French destroyers could if they were not careful.

Hrolf Hakonson

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Wednesday, November 21st 2007, 2:56am

Truly a fairly severe problem. Not to mention that Germany, historically, preferred diesel-engined MTBs for most purposes. Now, if I need an engine for a hydrofoil.....

Commodore Green

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Wednesday, November 21st 2007, 10:56pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
I can imagine said torpedo boats running into their own torpedoes...much like some of the faster French destroyers could if they were not careful.


You just point your tubes a little more over to the side,maybe even on a trainable mount, and launch at an oblique angle, so no running over your own fish!

...guess where Danish thinking is going......