WesWorld

BERLINGSKE TIDENDE 09.07.1921: SOUTH-AMERICAN QUADRUPLE ALLIANCE DECLARED
Concluding a three-day surprise summit in Paraguayan capital Asunción, the governments of Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, and Paraguay have announced the entering into effect of a mutual defence alliance encompassing the four nations. The text of the treaty essentially states that any threat against or attack on any one nation of the treaty shall be considered an attack upon all nations of the treaty, and that upon an attack of any one member-state, all member-states shall be immediately obliged to fully mobilise its armed forces, and come to the immediate and unlimited military aid of the attacked nation. The treaty does not specify any conditions or limitations relating to aggressive acts by conducted by any of the treaty-members.

In a joint pronouncement, the presidents of Bolivia, Brazil, and Paraguay stated that they consider the Republic of Argentina to not be, at the time of signature of the treaty, in a state of conflict with any nation. The nations have also indicated that they have no intention of participating in any conference intiated by a power outside of the South American continent, as they view such conferences as thin-veiled attempts by European powers to fetter the South American nations and bring them under European dominance, likening all such efforts to the Cleito-treaty, labelled by these nations as a subvertive effort on the part of the European powers to disarm the lesser powers of the world.

In response, Chile has announced that it is disappointed in the governments of its neighbouring nations, calling their attitude unnecessarily antagonistic and a threat to regional and world stability. The Chilean government has also declared that it no longer is satisfied with the state of the nation's security, and as a result has no choice other than to place significant orders to replenish and increase the nation's stock of ammunition, strategic consumables, and uniform materials.

No calling up of reserves are planned at this stage, but reorganisation of the nation's mobiisation-structure is underway, so as to facilitate more rapid mobilisation. Planned refits and dockings of naval vessels have been postponed indefinitely, and naval vessels currently undergoing repair and maintenance are having work-efforts forced towards rapid completion and return to readiness.

The Chilean government also has indicated that it is seeking counsel with other South-American nations on this matter, and that it intends to seek permission to be present at an upcoming conference in La Ciudad de Panama.

The Nordmark government said in a statement that these news do not significantly affect Nordmark planning.

"The Chilean government also has indicated that it is seeking counsel with other South-African nations on this matter, and that it intends to seek permission to be present at an upcoming conference in La Ciudad de Panama. "

South-African nations?!

If you assume a connection between the SAE and Chile I should know that...

Or perhaps I meant to write South-American, but made an error....

Now nearly nine years later the situation in South America has not fully improved. Bolivia is putting pressure on Chile to return the coast lost in the War of the Pacific and through what is left of the old 1880 Alliance has brought Peru back into the situation.

The question is how did the Alliance survive the Nordmark War, or did it fracture with Argentian's loss?

Brazil might be able to answer that question.

[I can't believe it existed in the first place. Y'all need to make a visit to Wikipedia before you come up with this stuff, because that alliance basically throws out years of antagonism between the nations mentioned.

As far as Brazil is concerned this pronouncement was nothing more than the moral support that has been mentioned and Brazil would not, and did not, act on the alliance because Argentina committed the first aggression. After the war Brazil effectively ceased to be a member.]

Yes it does, unfortunately some of us didn't know about wikipedia at the time.

Though not as weird as Navalism....
(Well South Africa and Nordmark might throw off some of the historical hostilities between Brazil and Argentina. This is also the reason Bolivia is looking at Chile instead of Paraguay as a way to get her "Chaco Oil" out to the world.)

(Did wikipedia exist three years ago?)

[I think it did, although I'm not sure. However, the information certainly existed before the creation of Wikipedia. At any rate, the "moral support alliance" is the best I can do given the constraints I have to work with. Of course, non-South American nations are free to not understand the dynamics involved in South America, which could very well lead them to believe that the Four-Part Alliance still exists in a meaningful form, which it wouldn't without Brazil.]

I think it would have fallen apart when Brazil did not (or could not) support Argentina in the War. I do not know if Bolivia or Paragauy aided Argentian with troops, but it seems unlikely.

Well I do know one thing. Bolivia and Paraguay's reason for not entering the war had nothing to do with them listening to Chile. They never listen to Chile it seems unless you have an army in their capitol to make them listen to Chile. Hopefully Brazil has come around a little bit.

On the other hand, Chile's relationship with Nordmark is unknown since the days of the war. Relations with South Africa and Iberia are not quite clear either. Chile, while not as hostile as Argentina was, has also expressed some displeasure with the continued presence of foreign powers on South American soil in the last few years. For Iberia it seems to be more based on them being the former rulers and those the revolutions were fought against in the early part of the 1800s while South Africa is looked on more like an invader from nearly 50 years ago. Nordmark, Britain, the Netherlands, and Franch are not seen as much of a local threat with their smaller colonies and islands (at least by Chile) and Atlantis is seen as a local power (viewed through legends). These items could be just background themes in Chile since the more present threats come from Bolivia, Peru and perhaps Argentina (which is still a relative unknown since 1922).

That's true though Peru wasn't part of the Alliance, so the rational was that Paraguay went with Bolivia for a time (I'm told they were untrustworthy...Paraguay that is...I cannot confirm this tale however).

Perhaps another factor to influence relations in South America...... Historically IIRC Simon Bolivar recieved assistance from Britain, along with other countrys, in his quest to liberate South America.

I've modeled Atlantean history to reflect this, given the long history between Atlantis and Iberia, it would make sence for Atlantis to lend its support to Bolivars forces as well.

Gentlemen,

I do not understand what´s the problem and I think it is necessary to take steps as a moderator.

- For all the time this SIM runs now the Quatruple Alliance was a given fact since anounced by Peng.

- For all the time this SIM runs now Brazil was seen and accepted as a supporter of Argentina´s position and the Quadruple Alliance. The only reason Brazil did not participate against Nordmark was the SAE who would have stepped in. The loss of the BIRGER JARL has to be kept in mind even though Peng could not complete this story arc.

- Until this very day no partner of the Quadruple Alliance stepped out of the treaty officially. No news or other post clearly stated such action in the past.

- Chile and all others acted as if the Quadruple Alliance is a given and were referring to it. I´m talking "in character" and "as player" here.

- We always had the policy that new players have to take what is WesWorld history as a given. This policy was always announced when a new player was allowed to step in. All new players accepted this rule (otherwise they would not have been allowed to join).

- Wikipedia does not, has not and will not dictate what certain countries do in WesWorld. It is up to every player to decide what happens with or to his country now and in the future. Wikipedia might provide some help if no history for a new power exists but in all other cases the rule above (about acceptance of WesWorld history) has to apply. Brazil is not a new power to WesWorld despite having a player running it now.

Hence I do not see a single reason why we should consider Brazil not to be a part of said alliance.

If Brazil does not want to be part of the alliance they can step out - today or in the future - with all consequences regarding international politics (proofing to be an unreliable partner etc.). All powers will be given a chance to react properly. But until then Brazil is part of the Quadruple Alliance.

Thanks,

HoOmAn

I think thats the way the conversation was going.

The 4 part alliance still exists, its just waiting for someone to pullout.

This conversation seems to have developed into "how can we justify why that alliance formed"...at least thats how I saw it.

[Exactly. How can the formation of the alliance be justified given the historical facts pre-Point of Departure? It can't, but it was done anyway. Now I'm stuck with fixing it. I would strongly suggest that in the future when you guys start diddling around with NPCs that might turn into PCs, pick up a reference book to research all aspects of that nation's history pre-Point of Departure so that there are not any suspension of belief breakers.]

Well we can say the PoD here was the formation of the Earth (Atlantis). ;-)

Basically the QA can be seen as a "shield", the disparate nations putting up a "false front" in the hopes of warding off the Viking hordes...it failed, of course. However due to the politics it has been felt best to "leave it up"...appearing unified to outsiders...in the hope that no-one will peek behind the curtain.

We moderators should discuss this offline. Check your email.

[I fail to see why this is a moderation issue. It's been done, it can't be undone. About the only way to fix it is to screw up Brazil international reputation. I'm not happy about that, but there's nothing that can be realistically done about that other to bite the bullet.]