WesWorld

Atlantis has a nice little gunboat design, obtained from Argentina and will soon have another smaller design building, so event's like this tend to get scrutinized by the Atlantean navy. The gunboats are perfect for Venezuelan/Colombian waterways and rivers.

Mexico has already used River Gunboats in action and has found them adequate, so if anyone is interested...

Those Motor Launches seem undergunned. I would have expected at least a 40mm gun. Mexican MLs pack up to 2 47mm guns on a slightly smaller ship.

The Dutch consulate would send a senior member to attend the nurses' funeral.

Travel warnings would be forwarded to the vessels carrying personnel and supplies raised via the "Pennies for Paraguay" campaign, as well as the home offices in the various Benelux states.

Oddly enough, the Belgian and Dutch governments have both given instructions to their shipping lines to comply with South African regulations.

While meant more for coastal and estuarian, a riverine operation would tap the "Putten" and "Gruno" classes.

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Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Nice story - probably a bit of a shock to the RSAN to think about riverine operations instead of blue water operations.

That´s quite correct. The SAE had no interest in any conflict in South America and thus did not prepare riverine operations. Now they are dragged into the fire and lack the material necessary. All the big battleships aren´t worth a dime when you need a shallow drafted river gun boat with two or three medium sized guns and some armor against MG fire and high explosive projectiles.

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Originally posted by Desertfox
Those Motor Launches seem undergunned. I would have expected at least a 40mm gun. Mexican MLs pack up to 2 47mm guns on a slightly smaller ship.

I don´t think so. The original R-Boats of the German Kriegsmarine which I nearly copied also had a single 20mm gun only. For good reason. These vessels were never intended to be fighting units. They were build for coastal (anti-)mine warfare and patrol duties, sometimes even including playing tug for other baots. Therefor a 20mm gun is good enough. You can blow up drifting mines from a distance, you can bring trawlers or other light vessels to halt if you want to check them, unarmed merchants you can stop too and the gun also adds some rudamentary AAA. More guns would just eat up deck space you need for your original tasks and would also add to the total crew size which is a completely different problem.

So no, I don´t think the R-Boats lack fire power. If the threat from planes increases or fighting enemy light crafts becomes more important a second 20mm gun or something similar might be added...

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Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
The Dutch consulate would send a senior member to attend the nurses' funeral.

While meant more for coastal and estuarian, a riverine operation would tap the "Putten" and "Gruno" classes.

The Dutch attendee to the funeral is very welcome, showing the worldwide community cares about what happens in this part of the world.

Do the Dutch have some of their river vessels around in Africa or the NEI? If so the SAE may be interested in some sale, lend/lease or trade (gun boats vs. units the RSAN can offer)...

19-09-1934
Posadas. Elements of the Royal South African Army crossed the river Parana all along the border to Paraguay to install a security zone. The decision to install such zone had come in July following the Argentinean example. The zone is meant to allow safe transportation of supply to refugee camps and RSAA patrols to more effectively intercept arms smuggle and other criminal operations. The zone will also help to avoid repetition of the convoy incidents a few days ago. At the river Parana will then be save as both river banks will be in the hands of the RSAA. There is no official statement yet how deep the zone will be driven into Paraguay and if any resistance had to be broken.

22-09-1934
Pilar. Together with the RSAA forces to install the security zone a unit was send to wipe out the enemy positions that were used to attack the river convoy on the 16th. While the zone will be extended several miles into Paraguayan territory towards the town of Pilar and along the border the Beta Company of the 3rd Ranger Battalion left Pilar aside and moved further north. When scouts meet resistance at dawn of the 21st a series of skirmishes began as both sides opened fire using rifles, grenades and MGs. At the beginning little was achieved due to limited visibility but soon the advancing Beta Company was striking hard when most of their soldiers closed on the enemy. The tide turned in favour of the RSAA and the enemy forces were driven back with both sides suffering casualties.

During their retreat the yet unidentified enemy left behind several wounded which were captured. It was then that the enemy troops after some confusion were first identified  as Argentinean. Immediately soldiers began to shout towards the opponent positions their identification and asking for theirs. The gun fire calmed down as more and more troops identified. Both sides laid down their weapons and recovered their wounded helping each other. As it turned out the Argentineans were on a very similar mission to strike against the enemy that had attacked the river convoy. After escorting an engineer unit to the beached Patria, they crossed the river and headed south. Little resistance was found until they ran into the RSAA scouts and disaster stuck home.

As the unknown enemy which attacked the ships seem to have vacated the area and with a total of 31 soldiers dead, most of them Argentinean, little was left to do and both forces returned towards their lines as fast as possible to not loose any of their wounded. Both commanders agreed to call on their superiors to install some kind of communication link between Argentinean and RSAA forces to make sure something similar will not happen again.

26-09-1934
Beira. Experiments at the University of Beira proofed the concept of point to point radio valid finally. Several successful links could be installed among different entities and the government has shown great interest to have some instalments added to their most important institutions and ministries. As a side effect the development of a detection device similar to other countries tools will be started as it was found out how range and bearing can be calculated due to the echos produced by objects blocking the direction in which impulses are emitted.

30-09-1934
San Francisco. The talks regarding a new naval arms limitation treaty have not yet resulted in anything worth ink and paper.

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Originally posted by HoOmAn

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Originally posted by Desertfox
Those Motor Launches seem undergunned. I would have expected at least a 40mm gun. Mexican MLs pack up to 2 47mm guns on a slightly smaller ship.

I don´t think so. The original R-Boats of the German Kriegsmarine which I nearly copied also had a single 20mm gun only. For good reason. These vessels were never intended to be fighting units. They were build for coastal (anti-)mine warfare and patrol duties, sometimes even including playing tug for other baots. Therefor a 20mm gun is good enough. You can blow up drifting mines from a distance, you can bring trawlers or other light vessels to halt if you want to check them, unarmed merchants you can stop too and the gun also adds some rudamentary AAA. More guns would just eat up deck space you need for your original tasks and would also add to the total crew size which is a completely different problem.

So no, I don´t think the R-Boats lack fire power. If the threat from planes increases or fighting enemy light crafts becomes more important a second 20mm gun or something similar might be added...

They certainly are undergunned for riverine use and seem ill equiped when their task is mine sweeping and harbour patrol. Motor launches can be quite versitile designs and compairing the 94 ton R-19/20 to the 60 ton Atlantean type 1 motor launch you can see the difference..

Type 1 Armament 1x40mm forward, 2x20mm 4x0.50 cal mg, 12 D.C.

Well, what can I say? The historical German R-class was one of the most successful and most respected designs around in the North Sea and Baltic... That alone speaks either volumes about the quality of other designs or there is merit in their design that cannot be seen when looking at the stats alone...

Anyway, another gun would surely help and it did so later in WW2 when the German boats got more guns. However, when introduced a single 20mm gun was adeemed dequate.

Well we are both right afterall, they are well armed for their designed task but taken away from that task and pressed into riverine patrol they begin to suffer. Emagine a tank with no infantry support and just 1 MG waddling down the streets of Stalingrad, 1 gun to fire at multiple targets from potentially any dirrection is certainly inadequate.

As you said they are not designed for riverine patrol so its a nice wake up call for the SAE. Given the ships size I don't think it would be unreasonable to throw on a few extra weapons and perhaps sadbags to protect vital area's.

By coincidence I've just picked up a cheap book on Gunboats at war, with story's ranging from the Crimean war to Vietnam, which has so far proved to be quite an interesting read.

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Originally posted by HoOmAn

Do the Dutch have some of their river vessels around in Africa or the NEI? If so the SAE may be interested in some sale, lend/lease or trade (gun boats vs. units the RSAN can offer)...

The Putten serve as the KLK coast guard vessels, serving throughout the kingdom, and there are squadrons of 8 at Paramaribo and Matadi.
77 ton wooden ships, they have light armor bolted to the framing. 13 knots and 1.25m draft.

The only negative is hindsight suggests they are overarmed (75mm fore/40mm aft, 4MGs)*, but I was trying to build in capability vs. MAS type light raiders and support of coastal ops vs. recalcitrant types.

The SAE would be familiar with the ones at Matadi, and a lease could certainly be arranged. Alternately, the Dutch have peered at the Uranus class with interest and would be interested in the loan of two for testing.

The Gruno class gunboats are meant for coastal direct and indirect fire support, with a 2.8m draft, 50mm armor and 125mm guns. They have electric drive and shrouded propellers to allow station keeping or manuevers without fouling. After the August Dutch-SAE exercises, 5th Gunboat returned to DEI, but any of the gunboat squadrons could be recalled if SAE made a request.

ed. : While browsing for 3 funneled ACs...ran across the WWI 77ton wooden subchaser SC110, many who's class had a 3" gun, so it's in range.

I just wondered if it would be possible to use the RSANs minesweepers for riverrine operations? None of the units has a draught over 2,6m.

How deep are the rivers anyway? Is there any good map available? If ships with a draught of 3,5m could be operated I could uses several of my sloop, light DD or frigate classes as well as the light CDS....

The Parana river (Argentina/SAE Uraguay/ParaguayBrazil) is supposedly quite navigable all the way up to Paraguay. The Amazon is also quite navigable.

Heres some info from Wiki you can search through.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_of_the_Americas

I found this reference on a site about the Hidrovia Paraguay-Parana, a proposed engineering project to improve waterway's navigability.

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Vessels of up to 100 metres in length can currently sail as far up river as Rosario, 453 kilometres into the hydrovia, and smaller vessels can reach as far as Asuncion in Paraguay. Further upriver, passage becomes far more difficult and cargoes have to be loaded and unloaded repeatedly from shallow barges to get past the rapids and narrow straits.

The 1911Encyclopedia notes:

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PARANA, a city and port * of Argentina, capital of the province of Entre Rios, and the see of a bishopric, situated on the left bank of the Parana river, 410 m. by navigable channels (about 240 m. direct) N.W. of Buenos Aires. Pop. (1895), 24,261; (1904, estimate), 27,000. The city occupies a gently rolling site 120 ft. above the river and about 2 m. from its riverside port of Bajada Grande, with which it is connected by railway, tramway and highway. It is classed as a seaport, and oceangoing vessels of not over 12 ft. draught can ascend to Bajada.

See also: http://zicosur.net/Nueva_ZICOSUR/espanol…6702cce2eeb14b2. The site's in Spanish, but you can see where several of the uppermost Argentine river ports list the draught of the vessels they can accommodate.

(Yes - I have the day off, if you're wondering)

Your Indian allies would likely note the possible utility of three ship types in service with the BNS:

-The two S-107 class sloops have a draft of 2.6 m; they also happen to be armored against small arms fire.

-The ten Bhramaputra class minesweepers have a draft of 2.6 m, and have a lighter armament but heavier armor protection.

-The monitor Bindusara has just a 2.2 m draft and light armor - but her 21 cm gun main battery might be useful.

You can also try to planeshift this in from Navalism if you're really desperate; she has a 2.0 m draft:

Thanks for the information regarding those South American rivers. Looks like I can use the RSANs sloops and other minor combatants for riverine operations.