WesWorld

Hi my name is Jeffrey, I like people watching in Venice, giving Canadians wrong directions, long walks on the beach...oh wait not that sort of place?

Actually I'm one of those crazy people who like to read up on Italian history during the ww2 time period and you can see me using the handle JeffreyF on Axis History Forums and Comando Supremo. Sparviero on Tank-Net and Sparrow on wwiionline. I'm a crazy Italian-American half breed born in Italy so I qualify for fresh off the boat, or maybe C-130, status.

I've happened upon this site looking for information on Italian naval material and stumbled onto Red Admiral's postings. Over time I've read a bit more each time and last week I really started diving into it. When I was younger I used to have quite the writing bug and as just about anyone else who studies history have the old "What if..." bug.

I've talked a bit to Red Admiral who is probably wondering why is this crazy git bothering me and decided I would like to take a stab at this. So I'm not sure where I could fit in but hopefully it would be something where I could have a bit of a learning curve without screwing up your sim if you will have me.

If it helps Red Admiral suggest that I pack my bags to go offer my services to Tsar Boris III in Bulgaria in the effort to return the Bulgarian borders to those under the Treaty of San Stefano.

Thanks for your time,
JeffreyF.

Disclaimer: No Canadians were harmed during the production of this film.

Oh I can't really say anything that bad about our fine neighbors to the north. Everytime I turn around I'm getting gigged for being Italian or Texan.

I've read quite a bit but it only leaves realizing how much more I need to read.

Just learning. That's why I was figuring a small nation would be ideal and Red Admiral suggested Bulgaria. After doing a bit of research and seeing Italy sold Bulgaria some equipment in this time period I'm sure that had nothing to do with his suggestion.

I figure this way I could start by working on infrastructure, experimenting with small ship classes and if need be purchase older ships from other players as I developed my springsharp skills.

Here is an attempt at feeding the numbers of an Italian destroyer design into springsharp.

----------------------------

Using data from

Cacciatorpediniere
Classi
"Freccia/Folgore"
"Maestrale"
"Oriani"
parte prima

E. Bagnasco - M. Brescia

2a serie Folgore, Italy destroyer laid down 1931

Displacement:
1,115 t light; 1,156 t standard; 1,238 t normal; 1,304 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(316.60 ft / 313.22 ft) x 30.45 ft x (9.91 / 10.28 ft)
(96.50 m / 95.47 m) x 9.28 m x (3.02 / 3.13 m)

Armament:
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 51.79lbs / 23.49kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts , 1931 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm 15.0 cal guns - 46.70lbs / 21.18kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts , 1931 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
1 raised mount
1 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 39.0 cal gun - 1.98lbs / 0.90kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mounts , 1931 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm 72.0 cal guns - 0.28lbs / 0.13kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts , 1931 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
1 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mounts , 1931 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 200 lbs / 200 kg
3 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 39,809 shp / 29,697 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 3,600nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 147 tons

Complement:
103 - 135

Cost:
£0.657 million / $2.626 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 39 tons, 3.1 %
Machinery: 700 tons, 56.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 399 tons, 32.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 123 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
314 lbs / 143 Kg = 6.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 10.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 34 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.47

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.459 / 0.465
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.29 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.19 ft / 5.85 m, 19.19 ft / 5.85 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.19 ft / 5.85 m, 19.19 ft / 5.85 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Average freeboard: 12.88 ft / 3.93 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 192.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.0 %
Waterplane Area: 6,126 Square feet or 569 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 49 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 168 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.51
- Longitudinal: 1.80
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

4th Battery Shell weight too heavy

-------------

Yes the numbers are off. However I think I'm starting to grasp how it is supposed to work as I look at others design. Just making my second attempt at it. Figure sticking to the smaller stuff right now as I learn the ropes of what makes for a good shipsim in springsharp would be best. However I figure if you will let me take part I can't really look a gift horse in the mouth so I'll be open to where you would want to slot me. I just know I'm a n00b at this and as such don't want to much anything up if allowed a chance.

Thank you very much for that information. I'll have to take a stab at it again with SS2 when I get home. Well if Bulgaria is the only free spot and y'all will allow it will make up for the weird looks I was getting for visiting websites about Bulgaria.

Thanks I was trying to make heads and tails of the OOB for Bulgaria.

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?threadid=2379

Then the infrastructure is:

Bulgaria - 3 factories
at Varna:
2 Type 1 slips
1 Type 0 slip
1 Type 2 drydock
1 Type 1 drydock
at Burgas:
2 Type 0 slips
1 Type 0 drydock

The Bulgarian Fleet
as of 1928(1934)

Dreadnought Helgoland -1908(Refitting Type 2 drydock in Varna?)
Predreadnought Sofia - 1898 -

Light cruisers.
Ex PRS Taput (CL-9), ex-SMS Niobe, laid down 1899, refit 1921, acq./rearmed 1927, sold to Bulgaria 1933
Ex PRS Tubbataha (CL-11), ex-SMS Hamburg, laid down 1902, refit 1920, acq./rearmed 1927, sold to Bulgaria 1933

6 x Husar class Torpedo Boats - 1905
4 x Smyeli class Torpedo Boats - 1906

Torpedo boat - GB Simeon Veriki ?
Torpedo boat - GB Asjen ?

7-9 Boris-class vedettes ?

License for T-1 Torpedo boat from Germany.

-----
Botef
Levski

"Small craft of 12 tons, armed with spar torpedoes"
-----

=============
I think it all comes down to Bulgaria maybe having 4-6 T-1 Torpedo boats and a couple of ancient light cruisers and scrapping everything else except keeping a capital ship for national pride purposes and moving on from there?

If I understand building capacity

2 type 1 slips can build ships up to 393ft in length
3 Type 0 slips can build ships up to 393ft in length

1 type 2 drydock
2 type 2 drydocks

3 factories producing 3000 tons of warship material or .3 points of Industrial material points.

If I understand how the cost system works being able to only generate .3 industrial material points and not being able to store up material for multiple quarters I will cap out at type 1 dry docks and slips. Which means I will be capable of building up to a destroyer class vessel.

The level 2 drydock can service up to a light cruiser if I understand everything correctly.

Ah I missed that I can build in a drydock.

Well I need to read up on the current Russian federation government. I believe we have common interest in having the Romanians ceding territory that does not rightfully belong to them. I see Italy is in need of testing out equipment and historically Bulgaria did buy some L3/33 and Pavesi tractors so maybe I will look that direction. Since I'll be limited to light craft there is a need for good torpedoes and minisubs as well.

Not so sure about infrastructure development seems things are going to be painful no matter what. Will have to play with things and see how much tonnage I can manage from scrapping old ships.

Although maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here. Just thinking out loud.