WesWorld

As the various delegates from Brazil, Peru, Chile, Bolivia and the mediating powers of the Netherlands, Atlantis and the host nation Colombia take their seats, Maren Xanthus stands up to adress the delegates...

"Thank you gentlemen for attending this conference. We have all gathered here today to discuss the fate of Bolivia, a nation now at the crossroads after a disasterous war.

The delegates from Atlantis, the Netherlands and Colombia are not here to unilaterally dictate the terms of the post war settlement, instead we would like to allow the nations present to present their opinions, greivances ect. in order to come to an argeement as to how to deal with Bolivia's borders and governance.

We would now like to leave the floor to the other delegates."

*note: I'd like to keep comments in this thread limited to those country's involved in the talks only.*

The Peruvian Foreign Minister stood to address his fellow delegates.

"I'm here only to ensure a just peace is reached between all the nations affected by this terrible conflict, that while over in the conventional sense is a ongoing concern of all the countries trying to keep order in that nation.

I only desire that while I agree that Bolivia should be punished by their aggressive actions against Chile I also ask to the other delegations to try to moderate their claims against the vanquish. The Bolivian people is not the guilty parties to this terrible war but they are now suffering hunger and other malidies while their government is falling apart. I call the Chileans," he turned in the direction of that country delegation,"to try to moderate their claims even when I know the desire for vengance is burning on their hearts and I understand the why. I plea to them to try to be generous in victory."

Them he turned in the direction of the Brazilians,"To our Brazilians friends I thank them for their actions to bring this conflict to a conclusion but I plea to them renounce the recognition to that bastard nation created by warlords so-called the Republic of Santa Cruz. That nation is an affront to the rank and file Bolivian soldiers that fought in this war and for the common good I againt ask the Brazilians to search in their hearts to work for the common good."

"And to our host I assure you we have no territorial desire in Bolivia, only that reparations will be paid to us for the cost of the war for a set period of time and the assurances that the nation that results from this Conference will be protected by all nations present at this Conference at this time. Thank you for your attention."

"As Chile has stated in the past, we wish for Bolivia to be parted from its lands now under our domain as held by our armies. This constitues the districts of Oruro, Potosi, Chuquisaca, and Tarija. We have heard comment that the remaining Bolivian government now under Peruvian care, may not be able to function without Sucre. Chile has mixed feeling on this matter as that would be an idea location to govern this set of lands away from Santiago."

"There is also some debate over the claims to Gran Chaco, the region disputed between Bolivia and Paraguay. The oil reportedly in this region was a driving force behind the Bolivian efforts to take Chile by force. There for the issue of its ownership and the supposed oil it contains should also be discussed."

"Chile, while desiring the oil of the Gran Chaco, does not believe it should remain with Bolivia, nor should it go to the radically unstable Paraguay. Brazilian claims are not reasonable for the Chaco based on their limited actions during the recent conflict. Chile would propose to either give this land back to its native peoples, make it a protectorate of Chile, or hand the land over as a protectorate of Argentina, for not disturbing our conflict as they could have easily done during our time of crisis"

(Edited: new data)

"As for the Peruvian request for moderation, we seek not to punish the Bolivians anymore than this war has already hurt them. However we have no desire in returning these lands over to those of their government and military who would seak war against our Republic. So our nation must bare a new burden of caring for those their governement and militray have crippled. The Bolivia people shall know of freedoms they could not have under their previous leadership. While they might not have a country of their own, they will still be Bolivians. Their nation will continue."

The Empire of Brazil's representive, Sir Grievous Shakaar, stands. "Brazil considers the Chilean claims to be fair and valid compensation for the cost in men and treasure they were forced to expend by the folly of the Bolivian government.

"The Empire believes that the fairest resolution for the area currently occupied by its forces is for them to be designated a Protectorate of Brazil for a period of five years, at the end of which a plebiscite should be held, offering independence, union with the Empire, or union with what remains of Bolivia.

"As for Peruvian concerns regarding the Santa Cruz de la Sierra Republic, following our intial...misunderstandings we have reached an amicable settlement with them. Aside from the areas in northern Beni province, the Empire has no desire to take any of this area. We also do not see why the legitimate desire of the peoples of this area for indepence, which was enabled to be achieved by the war, should be refused.

"It is also the Empire's opinion that western Santa Cruz province, currently occupied by the Peruvian and 'peacekeeping' forces, should be handed over to the Santa Cruz republic, however it seems that Peru may not be amenable to this."

Staatssecretaris of Foreign Affairs, Jan Bogaart :

Gentlemen,

With our host's permission, may I observe that when considering this matter, the future state of Bolivia a generation from now is of import. If Bolivia is not to degenerate to a den of bandits and outlaws, some central structure is necessary, if only to ward off Paraguayian adventurers. To support that structure will require an economically viable nation. At the same time we have the matter of reasonable reparations in proportion to the outrages sustained as a natural consequence of Bolivia's aggression.

To achieve that goal, the Chilean proposals regarding the Grand Chaco may veer close to a resolution. Presuming there is indeed resources in the Grand Chaco area, it would indeed be desirous to deny them to any Bolivian warlords seeking to renew the conflict.

Perhaps a Chilean protectorate for the span of a generation, twenty years, with a schedule of payments to the involved parties, would both help supply a balm to the fiscal wounds of the aggrieved, while also limiting the funds available for Bolivian rearmament. This of course is flawed if the Grand Chaco proves barren, but if the aggrieved parties are willing to let the potential revenue serve as security for a proportion of the indemnity, we can avoid crippling the Bolivian economy further.

This however brings us to the territorial issues, which are understandably more sensitive. I believe the Chilean concerns are of greatest import, so let me make a suggestion in this regard, hopefully I do not offend..

The rail line for Ollague, Chile to the hub at Uyuni makes control of that portion of Potosi important for Chile. However the headwaters of the Pilcomayo and Mamore rivers near Sucre are important wheat and corn lands(1), and the rail line(2) that connects them to La Paz travels through the cities of Potosi, Rio Mulato and Oruro.

Would the Chileans consider a slight reduction to allow this lifeblood to flow? Perhaps a border that includes the Uyuni- Villazon railway by following the mountain ridges to the east from the border northward to just outside of Rio Mulato, to the southern and western shores of Lago Poopo and thence to the Rio Desaguadaro? This would add the majority of the territory, rich in grazing and several types of mining to the Chilean state, while still leaving areas vital to a future viable Bolivia.

(1) well currently, I presume to a degree then too.
(2) 1955 map, if not a railway in 1934, then likely the major road.





hmm bigger maps than anticipated.

Note: I forgot the map....well Swamphen's map, of the proposed splitting of Bolivia.

red = Brazil
purple = Chile
yellow = Bolivia



Since then of course the situation between Peru and Brazil has changed.


(Chile will consider the Dutch suggestings for a new border.)

Peruvian Minister de LaGuarda response:

"The esteem Dutch delegate border proposals for Chile seems to me as a logical and generous offer to that nation while at the same time ensuring the continued existance of Bolivia as a viable country. As I have repeated before, Chile's wrath is understandable but I plea to their good intentions to give a stern but just peace to Bolivia."

He stopped for a second to read his notes and continued,"In regard to the Chaco region we find strange to reward a nation that sat idly while their so-called friends bled to death for two years and consider any other solution will be more palatable than this. We also consider the proposal of sharing proceeds between nations as a very interesting proposal and need to be studied further.(1)"

"And finally I ask for the nations present to repudiate the Republic of Santa Cruz. That so-called nation is only a fiction created by Brazil to extend their hands deeper into the continent and I will not be surprised if in five years those same people the Brazilians said are clamoring for freedom ask their patrons to annex them into their Empire. Agsin I ask all nations here to censure that so-called Republic and if necesary to enforce their return to Bolivia."

(1) OOC: We want one factory output for ten years. Of course we could soften our stand in some issues if we receive support to achieve this.

(ooc)
The northern part of the red area on the map would, of course, be the SCdlSR...

Speaking of which...

(ic)
"The people of the Santa Cruz republic have openly desired independence since 1904. Would the Empire wish to establish a puppet state, we would have done so long before now. The Empire would politely* request that Peru would refrain from making unfounded allegations and accusations that have no basis in truth.

"Any attempt to forcibly incorporate those people into a Bolivia they have no desire to be a part of, as Peru seems to desire, would be taken as evidence of bad faith on the part of the League of Nations, and could have serious repercussions on relations between Brazil and Peru."

* - Said in a menacing tone, of course.

Staatssecretaris of Foreign Affairs, Jan Bogaart :

With due respect gentlemen, could we defer the discussion regarding the Republic of Santa Cruz? We are aware the independinista's movement and flag date from 1904, though admittedly the new flag differs some.

We are sorry Senor LaGuarda finds the Grand Chaco proposal distasteful. Could the good delegate from Peru perhaps clarify the objection to the Grand Chaco proposal or provide an palatable alternative?

Francisco de La Guarda responds to the Dutch Minister:

"We will refrain for now to discuss the existance of the Republic of Santa Cruz for now in deference to your good graces but rest assured we want a resolution to the existance to this warlord nation before the end of the Conference."

He sipped some water and continued after setting the glass on the table. "My apologies for the misunderstanding in regard to the Gran Chaco region. We oppose the Chilean proposal to make the region an Argentinian protectorate not to your very interesting proposal. We could be sway to your ideas for the region if you can further expand your proposal."

Herr Bogaart looks to see if others wish to speak, and then continues:

Well, my role here is to assist our hosts and perhaps offer suggestions, I was not intending on presenting a full plan for acceptance. However, in order to offer meaningful comment, I have tried to sketch out what I see as the problems and potential solutions.

Bolivia is not a rich nation, and war is expensive. Saddling her people with heavy debt will more likely destroy the economy than result in the sought for remuneration to the aggrieved parties. Being able to offset this with a proportion of the prospective revenue from the Grand Chaco would be most helpful towards the long term stability of a Bolivian state.

The Grand Chaco is thought to be resource rich area, but between the boundary adjustments, the political upheavals, and other matters, Bolivia will be weak for many years and would hardly be able to hold the area from Paraguay or oversee the development of the area. Further, if the Chaco proved fabulously rich, it might fund Bolivian rearmament.

By entrusting the region to Chile, we provide both stability and a legal structure for development. Chile would then oversee the region for twenty years, taking the revenue that would have gone to the Bolivian state and allocating it to the treasuries of Chile, Peru and Brazil in proportion to their injury.

I was speculating that the Bolivian reserves of foreign currency, and direct resource payments could be allocated to the parties in the first couple of years, while the prospecting and infrastructure development of the Grand Chaco was conducted.

After two years, I would suggest that the military budget of Bolivia in the years proceeding the war be used as a guide for a maximal sustainable debt repayment level for ten years, with the remaining indemity being forgiven in exchange for whatever revenues are obtained from the Grand Chaco over the next twenty years. While a slight gamble, it would seem likely that the eventual Chaco revenues will exceed those obtainable by other means.


OOC : I need to insert a disclaimer- since Bolivian oil was new and the extent unknown, edited the minerals map so we are "in the dark" as to exact locations.

As said, Chile will consider these offers. However, as you should be able to see on the map, if Chile is to be protector of the Gran Chaco, would it not make sense to have access to that region though Chilean lands? As it is now, the only access to the Chaco is by riverway that crosses into Argentina first or road(rail)way that goes though Boliva.

Herr Bogaart:

You are of course perfectly correct, there is a decided dearth of transport routes. I believe I was thinking that Yacuiba would be the headquarters, and Bolivia accounts that as within the Gran Chaco. There is a Argentinean railhead in Arguaray, and the border drawn in the Friales range should include the road from Tarija through Entre Rios.

Alternately one could consider advancing the line to the Rio Pilcomayo and the end of the road in Villa Montes, which is more squarely in the region. In my original suggestion I drew the boundary along the dividing ridges as people seem less concerned about contesting mountaintop boundaries than fertile river valleys. Does this satisfy the transport needs?

(Do you have a better map of the Gran Chaco for review.)

The second proposal seems better in terms of actually getting traffice through without crossing as many borders. Defining the Gran Chaco, might also expedite this process, as due to its disputed nature, the maps I have don't match the ones you have. This may also clarify some of the territorial disputes that involve Peru and Brazil over what is and what is not to be Bolivia.

Even uses the same map as Canis's bigass map...



Also a usefull map for Bolivia

De La Guarda response:

"If we want to move this Conference along I guess we better began in agreeing to the main points one at a time. So I guess the first issue being discussed in earness is the Gran Chaco."

"We see no problems with the Dutch proposals for the administration of the region, we consider that Chile being the victim of the Bolivian government's aggression is the right nation to administer the region. The new territorial proposals to ensure a land corridor to the Gran Chaco area seem logical to us and for now any decision reached by Chile in regard to the administration of the region will receive our support as long as we receive a just part of the monetary compensation for the explotation of the region." (1)

(1) OOC: 1000 tons a quarter for ten years.

(What did Bolivia have in terms of factorys for our purposes? We are talking of splitting the country, but also of who gets these factories and what condition they are in, how long before they can be used by say Chile or Brazil, and how long before the wartime ware on the Bolivian factories will be repaired to get Peru its full 1,000 tons per quarter.)

(ooc: As an IC matter, the proposals are meant to ensure a disarmed but stable Bolivian state.

As an OOC matter I was thinking the proposal for tapping for 2 years Bolivia's foriegn currency and direct resources, and then dividing Bolivia's former Military budget for the next 8, would give grounds for giving "factories" to the victors.

The loss of a good chunk of the country to Chile, potentially more with the Chaco and/or Santa Cruz, would make meeting those payments very difficult long term, potentially with a default, but any "Factory loss" could be offset by the storyline development of the Chaco. )

Edit: With 2 factories, I would think there is room to award Peru 1 factory worth of output for 10 years as "payments" and award Chile all or most of a factory based on the territory gained and "payments". After 10 years, Bolivia would gain a factory back, but would be a diminished military threat- a consequence of their bad habit of attacking neighbors.

Quoted

After 10 years, Bolivia would gain a factory back, but would be a diminished military threat- a consequence of their bad habit of attacking neighbors.

And explain that such things are simply not done!

"Brazil has no issues with the proposed distribution of the Chilean Grand Chaco (at this time)."