Seaplane and Recon Proposals Requested

Mr. Dynamite

Monday, March 19th 2007, 3:39pm

The Força Aérea Brasileira has issued two Specifications for Proposals to the various aero-manufacturers of the world.

Specification 34-024 is for a single-engined, two- or three-seat floatplane, suitable for catapult launching, as a naval scout aircraft. The aircraft should have at least two 7.7mm machine guns (nose and gunner positions) and be capable of carrying two light bombs or depth-charges.

Specification 34-025 is for a two-, three- or four-engined, high-altitude reconnasiance aircraft. Desired performance is an operating altitude of 25,000 feet (although 20,000 feet is acceptable) and a mission endurance of eight hours (six hours acceptable). Defensive armament of a minimum of three 7.7mm machine guns is required.

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Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

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2

Monday, March 19th 2007, 3:48pm

This fits your first requirement nicely;

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Desertfox

Ambitious Packrat

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3

Monday, March 19th 2007, 4:30pm

CAC is working on a military version of this plane. Should fit specs 34-024 perfectly.

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CanisD

Professional

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Monday, March 19th 2007, 7:19pm

The Curtiss SOC would fill the floatplane role perfectly and is currently in service with the US Navy as its primary cruiser-based scout aircraft.

Vought has what it considers a far superior monoplane design in development. First flight is not scheduled till 1935 though. The OS2U design could be ready by late 1935. Intended for Battleship spotting use, the first prototype lacks folding wings but this could be modified to allow its use on smaller ships like cruisers.

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Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

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Monday, March 19th 2007, 7:33pm

The Arado company can offer the Arado Ar-196, which the Luftwaffe is examining as a possible replacement for the Heinkel floatplanes currently serving on Kreigsmarine cruisers.

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Swamphen

Mr. Dynamite

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Monday, March 19th 2007, 8:52pm

(Are the specs for the recon plane overblown for the time period? If so I can revise them downwards a bit...)

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Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

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Monday, March 19th 2007, 9:05pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen
(Are the specs for the recon plane overblown for the time period? If so I can revise them downwards a bit...)

I don't think so. Its just that there weren't any such aircraft. You'll probably end up with a lightened bomber.

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Desertfox

Ambitious Packrat

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Monday, March 19th 2007, 9:13pm

Your looking at a Dinah, XF-11, or F-5 type plane, not alot of those at this time period.

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CanisD

Professional

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Tuesday, March 20th 2007, 12:42am

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/C…mbers/xb16a.png
Martin's original B-16 proposal could be modifed to fit the requirements. As designed it comes quite close.

Maximum Range w/o bomb load 6200 miles, 42 hours endurance, ceiling 22,500 feet. Cruising speed 120mph, max speed 237 mph at 20,000 feet. nose and tail gun positions as well as retractable dorsal and ventral turrets. 10 man crew. Range with bomb payloads: 3,200 miles w/12,000 lbs, or 2,500lbs 5,200 miles.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "CanisD" (Mar 20th 2007, 12:43am)

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Swamphen

Mr. Dynamite

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Tuesday, March 20th 2007, 2:19am

Hmmm...what would be the estimated delivery date?

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CanisD

Professional

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Tuesday, March 20th 2007, 5:24am

Q3 or Q4/34 for a first prototype flight, then depending on how that goes maybe mid to late 35? I'm not really that well versed on such matters but the B-17 went from proposal to first flight in less than a year and work on the XB-16 design has already begun as part of the BLR (Bomber: Long Range) competition.

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Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

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Tuesday, March 20th 2007, 9:52am

Quoted

Martin's original B-16 proposal could be modifed to fit the requirements. As designed it comes quite close.

Good god Its got swept wings. We can't have that.

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Swamphen

Mr. Dynamite

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Tuesday, March 20th 2007, 3:51pm

The XB-16 is selected to fill the Specification 34-025 requirement.

As for Specification 34-024; the Australian design is considered too "hot" for the desired roles, and visibility concerns for observation missions were also raised. The Italian design, although very impressive, was considered too radical by the Marina Imperial officers on the design review board. The OS2U and Ar 196 have yet to fly, however both appear promising and are short-listed, along with the indiginous EMB-28 (Seversky SEV-3XP) and the currently front-running SOC.

(Additional proposals for Specification 34-024 will be considered until 23 March when a selection will be made. The currently most-probable option is SOCs now and Ar 196s later, with a few EMB-28s being procured to pacify the powerful 'EMBRAER lobby' in the Imperial Senate.)

(Also I've been reading Hungarian Air Force by George Punka, and based on the @ HAF's numbers during WW2 I may have underestimated my aerial requirements...)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Swamphen" (Mar 20th 2007, 3:54pm)

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Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

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Tuesday, March 20th 2007, 5:57pm

Quoted

Also I've been reading Hungarian Air Force by George Punka, and based on the @ HAF's numbers during WW2 I may have underestimated my aerial requirements...

That is in wartime though.

I'm not sure why the Italian design is viewed as radical. Its a sound enough choice that has found to be quite successful from when it entered service in 1932.

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Desertfox

Ambitious Packrat

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Tuesday, March 20th 2007, 7:55pm

Swampy you turned down a plane because it was too "hot"?

Am I hearing right?

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Swamphen

Mr. Dynamite

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Tuesday, March 20th 2007, 9:45pm

Quoted

I'm not sure why the Italian design is viewed as radical. Its a sound enough choice that has found to be quite successful from when it entered service in 1932.

'Unconventional' might have been a better word - one source of IC concern might be the watertightness of the bomb-bays (and, more to the point, the maintainance required to maintain same). And, OOC, I think it's quite ugly, too...

Quoted

Swampy you turned down a plane because it was too "hot"?

'Hot' performance-wise. :rolleyes:

I would question its slow-speed loiter charactaristics.

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Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

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Tuesday, March 20th 2007, 11:19pm

Focke-Wulf of Germany suggests it's new (expected to fly later in 1934) FW-200 as a possible answer to Brazil's desire for a long-range recon aircraft. Currently being built in a civillian model for Luft Hansa for the trans-Atlantic route, it's expected performance should be suitable for Brazil's desires when fitted with defensive weapons.

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Swamphen

Mr. Dynamite

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Wednesday, March 21st 2007, 1:14am

Kondor legion

Hmm, there IS a requirement projected in 1935 or 1936 for a long-range maritime patrol aircraft...

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Tanthalas

Intermediate

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Thursday, March 22nd 2007, 2:34am

Eclipse International is working on a design for this contract offer will have working blueprints and test model soon

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Swamphen

Mr. Dynamite

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Friday, March 30th 2007, 4:11pm

34-024 selection

After consideration of all submitted proposals, the Marina Imperial and the Força Aérea Brasileira have elected to place an order with the Curtiss company of the United States for twelve SOC type aircraft. A request is made for priority delivery.*

After some arguing from Senators of their district, EMBRAER also receives a contract for eight EMB-28 (SEV-3) type utility amphibians.

Finally, the German Arado corporation receives a Declaration of Interest in the Ar 196 advanced floatplane scout currently under development.

(* As it was realised, two battlecruisers with complete aviation facilities, and no aircraft to fly from them...)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Swamphen" (Mar 30th 2007, 4:12pm)

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