WesWorld

You're going to catch a lot of flak for the deck edge lifts.

Also, there's no need for the massive Nelsonesque Bridge turret when a more conventional carrier island will be far more efficient space wise, and perform just as well, if not better.

I just want to say all entries regardless of length will be examined equally and it may be a longer ship is best I just wanted to see what could be done on such a hull. Maybe an example of each 170m and 200m will be built, I'm undecided yet.

I knew Rocky couldn't keep away from a design contest.

In many ways a modernized Sacket's Harbor...

G&C CVL1934-1, Argentinian Aircraft Carrier laid down 1934

Displacement:
12,546 t light; 12,877 t standard; 14,416 t normal; 15,646 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
584.37 ft / 557.74 ft x 67.91 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
178.12 m / 170.00 m x 20.70 m x 7.00 m

Armament:
8 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (4x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x6 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1934 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1934 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 20 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 477 lbs / 217 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 520.93 ft / 158.78 m 9.88 ft / 3.01 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 144 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.00" / 51 mm 520.93 ft / 158.78 m 21.46 ft / 6.54 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.20" / 30 mm

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 132,973 shp / 99,198 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,769 tons

Complement:
657 - 855

Cost:
£4.995 million / $19.980 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 51 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 2,519 tons, 17.5 %
- Belts: 613 tons, 4.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 827 tons, 5.7 %
- Armament: 34 tons, 0.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,006 tons, 7.0 %
- Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 3,825 tons, 26.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,551 tons, 31.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,869 tons, 13.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,600 tons, 11.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,281 lbs / 7,838 Kg = 372.4 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.580
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.21 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 41.01 ft / 12.50 m
- Forecastle (3 %): 41.01 ft / 12.50 m (31.17 ft / 9.50 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarterdeck (3 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Stern: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 25.48 ft / 7.77 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 143.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 197.2 %
Waterplane Area: 27,190 Square feet or 2,526 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 484 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.26
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

40 Aircraft

Quoted

Originally posted by Tanthalas
Eclipse International Offers the following Design

While I appreciate your input we had some dispute over deck edge lifts some time ago and the general consensus was that deck edge lifts are pushing things a bit in the early to mid 30s....

Quoted

Originally posted by Tanthalas
Eclipse International Offers the following Design

3 Elevators, 100,000 sq ft of aircraft storage space split evenly on 2 Hanger decks 50,000 sqft per deck. Design calls for a complement of 60 (180,000 lbs) aircraft 30 stored on each hanger deck

There's actually a set of rough formulas in the springsharp notes. Presuming I remember correctly, something like (LxB)/70 for metric to figure capacity. Additionally, not only do the physical dimensions need to be present, but also the miscellaneous weight to account for the aircraft and - esp. their fuel and stores, service crews and pilots. SQRT(Misc) gives the other capacity check.

Quoted

Originally posted by CanisD
In many ways a modernized Sacket's Harbor...

G&C CVL1934-1, Brazilian Aircraft Carrier laid down 1934

If you redo it with 120mm and 35mm guns, it just might work for Brazil (as opposed to Argentina)

What you don't want to buy a Hawkins class cruiser from Canada and rebuild it into a carrier again?

Quoted

There's actually a set of rough formulas in the springsharp notes. Presuming I remember correctly, something like (LxB)/70 for metric to figure capacity. Additionally, not only do the physical dimensions need to be present, but also the miscellaneous weight to account for the aircraft and - esp. their fuel and stores, service crews and pilots. SQRT(Misc) gives the other capacity check.

That is quite true. Playing around with the design shows that there is plenty of hull strength to cover the 60 planes (3600 tons) though and the design's dimensions are good enough for 77 planes.


Tanthalas, the few things I would say are:
- AA guns in turrets on barbettes is a bit unusual.
- I'd prefer a few more main gun shells for that caliber and DP gun.
- 0.01" end belts seem... rather useless.
- No deck armor
- No CT armor
- Low Seaboat quality.
- Block coefficient seems a bit low


Messing around a bit with the design (same base dimensions), you can get to this:

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1934

Displacement:
13,878 t light; 14,267 t standard; 15,984 t normal; 17,357 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
580.12 ft / 557.74 ft x 104.99 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
176.82 m / 170.00 m x 32.00 m x 7.00 m

Armament:
6 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns in single mounts, 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
36 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x6 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 377 lbs / 171 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
60 planes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 360.89 ft / 110.00 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 360.89 ft / 110.00 m 22.15 ft / 6.75 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.77" / 45 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 75,094 shp / 56,020 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,090 tons

Complement:
709 - 923

Cost:
£4.036 million / $16.146 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 41 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 2,358 tons, 14.8 %
- Belts: 573 tons, 3.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 466 tons, 2.9 %
- Armament: 43 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,239 tons, 7.7 %
- Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,160 tons, 13.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,720 tons, 35.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,105 tons, 13.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3,600 tons, 22.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,342 lbs / 14,670 Kg = 697.0 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 6.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 7.6 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.416
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.31 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Stern: 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Average freeboard: 25.09 ft / 7.65 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 246.5 %
Waterplane Area: 37,792 Square feet or 3,511 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 151 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 559 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.24
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



You should try to increase the BC and decrease the beam. Increasing the BC will have a negative effect on the seaboat quality but narrowing the beam has a positive effect on the seaboat quality. Keeping roughly to the same normal displacement, the effects of the increased BC and decreased beam should cancel eachother out.

Same ship as above, but with narrower beam and greater BC. Note that at this point the decrease in dimensions means that the maximum number of planes is 59 ((557.74*79.4)/750=59.05). Also, the hull strength is now 1.17 compared to the 1.00 of the original dimensions.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1934

Displacement:
13,825 t light; 14,214 t standard; 15,981 t normal; 17,395 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
580.12 ft / 557.74 ft x 79.40 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
176.82 m / 170.00 m x 24.20 m x 7.00 m

Armament:
6 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns in single mounts, 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
36 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x6 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 377 lbs / 171 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
59 planes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 362.20 ft / 110.40 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 362.20 ft / 110.40 m 22.15 ft / 6.75 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.77" / 45 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 80,862 shp / 60,323 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,182 tons

Complement:
709 - 923

Cost:
£4.141 million / $16.566 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 41 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 2,170 tons, 13.6 %
- Belts: 568 tons, 3.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 467 tons, 2.9 %
- Armament: 43 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,055 tons, 6.6 %
- Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,326 tons, 14.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,688 tons, 35.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,156 tons, 13.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3,600 tons, 22.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
26,335 lbs / 11,946 Kg = 567.5 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.02 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Stern: 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Average freeboard: 25.09 ft / 7.65 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 209.9 %
Waterplane Area: 32,174 Square feet or 2,989 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 149 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 585 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.09
- Longitudinal: 2.23
- Overall: 1.17
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Well done Rooijen

Fixed the typo...got it confused with the cruiser competition.

=P as for the lifts well i was baseing it off a real ship, oh and at this point in time there was much argument over weather or not the deck of a carrier should be armord, im going for the Japanease / half of USN opinion that they shouldnt be. and i know the coeficant sucked. it worked perffect at 192 meters, but the thing called for 170... so well i shortend it =P incase you are wondering this is based off CV experimental that the USN put out plans for a few years ago it was never built, but meh seamd like a good starting point. I pland to finish it out tonite and put the 192 meter varient up

Quoted

Originally posted by Tanthalas
=P as for the lifts well i was baseing it off a real ship,

Huh?!?!

Browsing my brain I cannot find any historical design of 1934 with three deck edge elevators.... Doesn´t mean much, though. Could you please explain what ship you are referring to? Thanks....

US CVX is a curent design to see how small a carrier could be and still be effective. it was a thing kicking around when i was in the navy sort of a replacement for the curent helo carriers. I used it because it was the right tonage, howevr i had to shorten it and narow it which didnt work out so well. at 192 meters it works perfect ><

Perhaps, but the older CVX concepts are a bit out of the time period we are dealing with. 1930s is a lot different than 1970 or 2000. (I seem to recall a 1970s project to make small carrier instead of lots of Nimitz-class ships....obviously we decided to go supercarrier as the new CVX(N) will be on a Nimitz-like hull....though I hope they don't keep it called the Ford. I was hoping to get away from people and politicians for carriers, and go back a step or two...like America or Enterprise).

ya it was nimitz period, when the basic desighn i was messing with was originaly presented

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
though I hope they don't keep it called the Ford. I was hoping to get away from people and politicians for carriers, and go back a step or two...like America or Enterprise).

I agree, but it looks like we were overruled again...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gerald_R._Ford

I know, but there is always the dedication ceremony...slim to no hope there....at least Ford is dead before they decided to officially name it, unlike the Reagan or Bush...or submarine Carter.

You might want to try to stick to roughly in period designs if possible. Not many are that small honestly. The escort carriers are, but those won't do Argentina much good.

Chile's next carrier will be about the size of the historical Ranger (CV-4) but probably without the odd stack arrangement (as I've discovered that the Oyama hull is about the same size as the Ranger's hull.)

Abit off topic but is a shame the new class will mean that enterprize is decommed. Given the U.S. navy's questionable practice of naming carriers after presidents its dubtfull "Enterprise" will find itself in the Navy again as a CV which is a real shame.

Seven of the orriginal 8 CV's, Langley, Lexington, Saratoga, Ranger, Yorktown, Enterprise and Hornet (Wasps name is already used IIRC for an LPD) should be retained to pay tribute to the U.S. CV's origins.

Starships...that's the next logical place for such a name....NASA's got some work ahead of them in the next ten years, but I want an "Enterprise".

Just think of the names you could use for "Starships", too many Sci-Fi names to choose from!