WesWorld

A few new types are planned, but some are still being tinkered with. So just one for the time being:

The two Patna class cruisers are intended to provide the Talwar class carriers with additional protection against aircraft.

The main battery is dual-purpose in the same sense as the historical Fubuki class destroyer's guns - elevating up to seventy degrees. Reasonable light AA is also provided.

The other notable change is the adoption of splinter protection for the torpedo banks. This is a consequence of the loss of SR Male some months back. Some witnesses claim that the catastrophic explosion which destroyed the ship originated in her portside torpedo carriage, and not the wing 21 cm turret. Given that the actual hit which triggered the loss was somewhat forward of this area, it has been supposed that flying debris somehow initiated the loss. The protection installed here may prove to be a new standard for Indian cruisers.

Two aircraft are provided as usual.

A fair weight reserve has been provided for this class. This is not only for possible additional light AA but also for potential modifications to the main battery. The BNS is aware of the development and potential for radar, but has no operational model to actually install at this time. Still, the class has weight set aside for it, and space has been set aside on the foremast for one.

Although the ship could have been designed around a hull strength of 0.9, the additional hull strength was deemed desirable in case operations brought the ship into cyclone paths.



Patna & Ludhiana, laid down 1934

Displacement:
5,736 t light; 5,985 t standard; 7,182 t normal; 8,140 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
566.05 ft / 547.90 ft x 53.31 ft x 20.01 ft (normal load)
172.53 m / 167.00 m x 16.25 m x 6.10 m

Armament:
12 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (6x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1934 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 738 lbs / 335 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
10 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 356.14 ft / 108.55 m 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.18" / 30 mm 39.37 ft / 12.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 1.18" / 30 mm

Miscellaneous Weight:
-75 t: Two aircraft and a catapult
-40 t: Armor plating above torpedo carriages
-75 t: Weight reserve


Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 65,684 shp / 49,000 Kw = 32.85 kts
Range 20,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,155 tons)

Complement:
389 - 507

Cost:
£2.665 million / $10.658 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 92 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 793 tons, 11.0 %
- Belts: 186 tons, 2.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 43 tons, 0.6 %
- Armour Deck: 555 tons, 7.7 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 1,890 tons, 26.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,771 tons, 38.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,446 tons, 20.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 190 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,310 lbs / 4,223 Kg = 156.2 x 4.9 " / 125 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.430
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.28 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.75 ft / 7.85 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Stern: 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Average freeboard: 18.66 ft / 5.69 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.1 %
Waterplane Area: 19,046 Square feet or 1,769 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 423 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.63
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Like her very much, Ill be building something similar but slightly smaller later on.

Why Aircraft on a ship intended mainly to defend carriers, certainly no need for scouts, and the Avgas could cause havoc if the fuel line is hit.

I have to agree, ditch the aircraft and spread out and increase the AA for better firing arcs. Otherwise a very nice ship.

I tend to agree with the others. She´s a remarkable ship, well balanced but I wonder why she needs floatplanes when build to escort carriers.

However, if India foresees to use these cruisers in other roles as well, something like the british OTL ARETHUSAs, then I´d go with the planes....

I reckoned the ability for a carrier's cruiser escorts to assist in the scouting function would either allow for a more comprehensive search, or the carrier retaining more aircraft for strikes. Hence their inclusion here.

I don't think the risk of an avgas fire is any more serious here than it is with any other cruiser.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor

I don't think the risk of an avgas fire is any more serious here than it is with any other cruiser.

Of course it is! After all, your ships do visit Filipino ports, conflagration by association and all..

Sure, but anything other than an asbestos canoe is at risk in the Philippines. Sometimes you've just got to play the odds.

It'll still kill you, just alot slower. I guess the moral of the story is: Stay away from the Phillipines at all cost . Exploding ships, El Derretir, SALSA, etc...


My carrier groups will have two floatplane cruisers each, finding the enemy before it finds you might just be the difference between defeat and victory.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Sure, but anything other than an asbestos canoe is at risk in the Philippines. Sometimes you've just got to play the odds.

I wouldn't bet much money on the canoe leaving the Philippines unsinged either...

Quoted

the additional hull strength was deemed desirable in case operations brought the ship into cyclone paths.

Or psycopaths

I'd be a bit concerned about the belt armour. Its probably worth increasing the size by 100-200tons to get it up to standard 80mm.

That's what the small arms locker is for.

I'll examine the belt armor options. Your thoughts on the planes?

Most likely not worth having the planes. They are dangerous, especially amidships. Lose the planes and mount 4 more 35mm mounts in the space left.

I'm surprised it all fit myself. I had awful problems trying to fit 6x2x152mm onto a 170m hull so in the end I gave up and went to 4x2x152mm and more armour.

It's a bit of a scrunch, but apart from the aircraft, I've not strayed too far from the later Atlanta models. If I could get a sense of how large the US 5/38 is, I'd have a better idea of how appropriate my 125mm gun size is.

Really rough numbers, based on an Atlanta LD and the number of pixels for the dimensions of each turret aren't always the same as those of another turret, so these numbers are not quite accurate I would think. (+/- 30 cm error or so)

Length turret: ~510 cm
Width turret: ~489 cm
Height turret: ~383 cm

Thanks; I shall compare tonight after barn chores are finished. Sheep before ship, you know.

I personally like the aircraft, but then I'm the one with the ACME franchise.

Taking a break between chores...wife's out of town...feeling mellow...seems like a good time to dig into the archive and post the rest of the 1934 stuff.

Kanpur's basically a stretched and slightly improved Ahmadabad. Upper belt for torpedo protection. 2 AC, 1 cat, flag facilities.

Kudligi-34 is pretty much the original Kudligi class escort, but making use of recycled and refitted engines from the S-114 class as those ships are scrapped. Reduces performance a bit, but saves on the cost. Hull strength's a bit high, but the design does what it's supposed to do with what it's got.

Magar Macchh class are largish destroyers with equipment to carry torpedo reloads or a set of mines. Envisioned for independent and night-time ops. Aft mount is superfiring to reduce interference with minelaying kit. Don't ask me how to pronounce "Macchh" - we only have to read and write it.

Kanpur class light cruiser, laid down 1934

Displacement:
8,600 t light; 9,016 t standard; 10,520 t normal; 11,723 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
612.65 ft / 593.83 ft x 59.38 ft x 21.75 ft (normal load)
186.73 m / 181.00 m x 18.10 m x 6.63 m

Armament:
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1934 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (4x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1934 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,735 lbs / 787 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
16 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 360.89 ft / 110.00 m 9.25 ft / 2.82 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.18" / 30 mm 78.74 ft / 24.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 84,450 shp / 63,000 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 20,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,707 tons)

Complement:
519 - 675

Cost:
£4.042 million / $16.167 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 217 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 1,700 tons, 16.2 %
- Belts: 600 tons, 5.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 360 tons, 3.4 %
- Armour Deck: 699 tons, 6.6 %
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,430 tons, 23.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,104 tons, 39.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,920 tons, 18.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,135 lbs / 5,958 Kg = 127.6 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.88 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.90 ft / 8.20 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.26 ft / 6.18 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.7 %
Waterplane Area: 23,988 Square feet or 2,229 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 105 lbs/sq ft or 513 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.51
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Kudligi-34 class escort, laid down 1934 (engines 1927)

Displacement:
1,060 t light; 1,124 t standard; 1,414 t normal; 1,646 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
314.64 ft / 303.48 ft x 32.48 ft x 11.15 ft (normal load)
95.90 m / 92.50 m x 9.90 m x 3.40 m

Armament:
4 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (2x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1934 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 247 lbs / 112 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
4 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 8,043 shp / 6,000 Kw = 22.61 kts
Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 522 tons)

Complement:
114 - 149

Cost:
£0.484 million / $1.936 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 31 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 14 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 14 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 254 tons, 18.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 701 tons, 49.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 354 tons, 25.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 4.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,588 lbs / 1,174 Kg = 43.4 x 4.9 " / 125 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.95

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.34 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.72 ft / 5.40 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 14.09 ft / 4.30 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.5 %
Waterplane Area: 6,287 Square feet or 584 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 171 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 57 lbs/sq ft or 278 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 3.80
- Overall: 1.07
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Magar Macchh class dakuu, laid down 1934

Displacement:
1,950 t light; 2,049 t standard; 2,355 t normal; 2,599 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
410.05 ft / 393.70 ft x 36.42 ft x 14.37 ft (normal load)
124.98 m / 120.00 m x 11.10 m x 4.38 m

Armament:
6 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (3x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1934 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 369 lbs / 167 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

8 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes (simmed as 10 to cover reload space)

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

Miscellaneous Weight:
-10 t: Sonar
-20 t: 2 DCT and DC racks
-8 t: torpedo reload equipment
-35 t: minelaying gear
-40 t: mines (3 per tonne) and reload torpedoes (2 t each)
-15 t: Weight reserve

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 42,895 shp / 32,000 Kw = 34.14 kts
Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 549 tons)

Complement:
168 - 219

Cost:
£1.273 million / $5.092 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 46 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 21 tons, 0.9 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 21 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,088 tons, 46.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 666 tons, 28.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 405 tons, 17.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 128 tons, 5.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
607 lbs / 275 Kg = 10.2 x 4.9 " / 125 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.81 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Mid (47 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m (11.15 ft / 3.40 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Stern: 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Average freeboard: 15.14 ft / 4.62 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.3 %
Waterplane Area: 9,159 Square feet or 851 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 79 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 185 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.52
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Can I assume that the Filipino Talwar will be built as well?

Love the destroyer. Very much like what will be coming from Russia post-Treaty.

You could get more out of her with only 1 superfiring main gun mount tho.