WesWorld

After several attempts here is a design I feel is very good. Capitan Gascon will probably be refitted in two years time to a different spec.

Project 101C Libertad, Argentina/ USA Battleship laid down 1915 (Engine 1934)

Displacement:
31,326 t light; 33,012 t standard; 35,213 t normal; 36,973 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
634.64 ft / 623.36 ft x 95.14 ft (Bulges 111.55 ft) x 29.20 ft (normal load)
193.44 m / 190.00 m x 29.00 m (Bulges 34.00 m) x 8.90 m

Armament:
10 - 14.02" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1915 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (8x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
48 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x6 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 14,524 lbs / 6,588 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.8" / 375 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 4.72" / 120 mm 246.06 ft / 75.00 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
2.95" / 75 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 27.86 ft / 8.49 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.5" / 343 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
4th: 0.47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 13.50" / 343 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 60,500 shp / 45,133 Kw = 23.57 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,960 tons

Complement:
1,284 - 1,670

Cost:
£4.174 million / $16.698 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,821 tons, 5.2 %
Armour: 14,715 tons, 41.8 %
- Belts: 5,133 tons, 14.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,298 tons, 3.7 %
- Armament: 3,201 tons, 9.1 %
- Armour Deck: 4,770 tons, 13.5 %
- Conning Tower: 312 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,740 tons, 4.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,899 tons, 36.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,887 tons, 11.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
55,969 lbs / 25,387 Kg = 40.7 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 12.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 19.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.607
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.59 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (60 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.8 %
Waterplane Area: 43,662 Square feet or 4,056 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 204 lbs/sq ft or 995 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.05
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Changes:
14in guns elevation increased to 30 degrees
New 115mm DP armament added in place of casemates
New light AA outfit
New RD Mk.I, RD Mk.III and HACS Mk.10 rangefinders and fire control equipment
New main belt, end belts removed and new upper decapping belt
Hull bulged and new three-layer torpedo bulkhead system added
Deck armour added
New machinery to increase speed by 1kt and save space
Bulges to carry more oil fuel for better range

Replacing the belt armour probably isn't cost effective or practical.

Adding the thick upper belt detracts from the AoN armourscheme considerably. 120mm is too thick really. It's too thin to keep HE out and thick enough to make AP explode (maybe).

Otherwise it looks pretty good.

RA, your probably right about the upper belt and I felt it was too thick but added it because I had excess strength. I've changed the upper belt and left the old main belt and reduced the bulges to gain extra speed.

Project 101D Libertad, Argentina/ USA Battleship laid down 1915 (Engine 1934)

Displacement:
30,357 t light; 32,023 t standard; 34,177 t normal; 35,900 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
634.64 ft / 623.36 ft x 95.14 ft (Bulges 108.27 ft) x 29.20 ft (normal load)
193.44 m / 190.00 m x 29.00 m (Bulges 33.00 m) x 8.90 m

Armament:
10 - 14.02" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1915 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (8x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
48 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x6 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 14,524 lbs / 6,588 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.5" / 343 mm 340.00 ft / 103.63 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 3.15" / 80 mm 340.00 ft / 103.63 m 8.04 ft / 2.45 m
Main Belt covers 84 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
2.95" / 75 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 27.86 ft / 8.49 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.5" / 343 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
4th: 0.47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 13.50" / 343 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 60,000 shp / 44,760 Kw = 23.66 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,877 tons

Complement:
1,256 - 1,633

Cost:
£4.122 million / $16.489 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,821 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 13,308 tons, 38.9 %
- Belts: 3,733 tons, 10.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,298 tons, 3.8 %
- Armament: 3,201 tons, 9.4 %
- Armour Deck: 4,770 tons, 14.0 %
- Conning Tower: 306 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,726 tons, 5.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,351 tons, 39.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,820 tons, 11.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
53,158 lbs / 24,112 Kg = 38.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 11.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 19.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.607
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.76 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (60 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.7 %
Waterplane Area: 43,662 Square feet or 4,056 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 213 lbs/sq ft or 1,039 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.05
- Longitudinal: 1.64
- Overall: 1.10
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Changes:
14in guns elevation increased to 30 degrees
New 115mm DP armament added in place of casemates
New light AA outfit
New RD Mk.I, RD Mk.III and HACS Mk.10 rangefinders and fire control equipment
End belts removed and new upper decapping belt added
Hull bulged and new three-layer torpedo bulkhead system added
Deck armour added
New machinery to increase speed by 1kt and save space
Bulges to carry more oil fuel for better range

i'd use the available space fro machinery and make her faster. She is too slow for the 30s IMO

I think she´s fast enough.

I can read Hooman's Thoughts (tm) right now: "As long as the Libertad is slower than the RSAN battleline, it will be perfect. No problem at all."

Grrr.... Is that some sort of Rooijen Mind Trick (tm)?

Btw, how was Valentines Day for you this year?

That subject is forbidden.

Quite busy. +20 million stems (I think; it could have been a 3 on the list instead of a 2) the last two weeks, mainly tullips and roses. Quite a few have gone your direction, Hooman (either for Germany or on to Poland and Austria). Shows you that people love to give flowers.
So due to work as well as an upgrade of my computer, I haven't been able to work on my reports lately. Office still needs to be installed so at the moment, I cannot access my evil building plan spreadsheet needed to make the reports.
At least I have the ability to Play Rome: Total War and Medieval II: Total War on this PC now.

Next will be Easter (*groan*) and after that Mother's Day (*groan* x 10)...

Isn't Mothers Day March 18th this year, and Easter April 8th?

Not sure about the dates, but at least I can relax a bit for the moment...

I give chocolate over flowers at present.

See's Candy.


The Libertad seems fine compared with the Chilean Dreadnoughts.

Three friars were behind on their belfry payments, so they opened a small florist shop to raise funds. Since everyone liked to buy flowers from the men of God, the rival florist across town thought the competition was unfair.

He asked the good fathers to close down, but they would not. He went back and begged the friars to close down, but they would not. He asked his mother to go and ask the friars to get out of the business. They would not.

So, the rival florist hired Hugh McTaggart, the roughest and most vicious thug in town to persuade them to close. Hugh beat up the friars and trashed their store, saying he'd be back if they didn't close their business. Terrified, they did so - thereby proving that...

...only Hugh can prevent florist friars.

Lady Green is of the opinion that "You should burn in Hell for that one!!"

I'm inclined to agree!

(strange thread hijack considering I feel Valentine's Day is a commerical con and as for flowers, they make me sneeze!)

Anyhow, back to the subject.
I tried 80,000shp but I had troubles with the seakeeping but a knot extra is an improvement without lengthening the bow. The speed won't raise much before you need excess hp which will be wasted.

As for BB Vs BB can anyone name an engagement where a faster battleship defeated a slower one in combat?

If your speed is broadly comparable to the Chilean and Brazilian BBs, I'd be satisfied with that. You can't increase it up to match the SAE battleline anyway - so use the left over hull strength in other ways. I think the rebuild, over all, is pretty satisfactory.

(Sorry, Hood, but I have to add on the off-topic stuff: I gave my wife a farming magazine, rather than chocolate or flowers; she was delighted.)

Quoted

As for BB Vs BB can anyone name an engagement where a faster battleship defeated a slower one in combat?

Tsushima is the ultimate expression of this. See if you can get Vol. I of the Fisher Papers on interlibrary loan. We have Vol I and II in the library so they do exist.

J, I'm guessing that you don't have Farmer's Weekly over there?

What SAE has to look out for now.

Ack, ugly superstructure alert!!!

Stacks are a bit small, methinks....