WesWorld

Another new ship for 1934. Two of these will be built in the Phillipines for Mexico. They are close relaitves of the original Basilan and of Shivagi by way of the Samals and Recifes.

They are designed to be able to pound any Inigo Montoya into scrap, they will be faster than the old Iberian BBS and the Lunas, are able to match the Santa Marias, and stand a chance of fighting El Cid to a draw. They can also be used as raiders being faster, better armed, better armored than the German PBs.

Note: They might be finished with 6x2 47mm guns instead of the 1.1" guns.

Pancho Villa, Mexico Heavy Cruiser & Bandido laid down 1934

Displacement:
13,202 t light; 13,965 t standard; 16,151 t normal; 17,901 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
706.94 ft / 670.00 ft x 67.00 ft x 25.70 ft (normal load)
215.48 m / 204.22 m x 20.42 m x 7.83 m

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (1x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
16 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,137 lbs / 2,330 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 83,453 shp / 62,256 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 14,100nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,936 tons

Complement:
716 - 931

Cost:
£6.788 million / $27.152 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 642 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 3,500 tons, 21.7 %
- Belts: 1,180 tons, 7.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 853 tons, 5.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,425 tons, 8.8 %
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,371 tons, 14.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,640 tons, 41.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,949 tons, 18.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,464 lbs / 10,189 Kg = 44.9 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.82
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.490
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 50.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.00 ft / 9.45 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (40 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 20.73 ft / 6.32 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.4 %
Waterplane Area: 30,816 Square feet or 2,863 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 661 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.43
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I think Iberia might be looking to borrow some Italian ACRs from time to time...

Quite impressive, particularly on the relatively low displacement.

The freeboard's a bit odd. Is it meant to be flush-decked or what?

Not much point in going out raiding without some capacity for airborne scouting, and I'd expect a flag bridge for what is probably the warship to enter Mexican service. I'd be looking for at least 125 t in miscellaneous weight, then.

They can pound a Montoya if one chooses to stay in range - the speed differential might be an issue.

The Montoyas only have a knot advantage and Villa is the better seaboat. The Hermosillos are equiped with flag facilities and Im planning on buying a couple of Omahas and converting them into seaplane cruisers, but your right Ill add more misc weight.

Fixed freeboard, more misc added, 47mm guns added.

Pancho Villa, Mexico Heavy Cruiser & Bandido laid down 1935

Displacement:
13,244 t light; 13,980 t standard; 16,151 t normal; 17,889 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
702.18 ft / 670.00 ft x 67.00 ft x 25.70 ft (normal load)
214.02 m / 204.22 m x 20.42 m x 7.83 m

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (1x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
12 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 3.17lbs / 1.44kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,164 lbs / 2,342 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 140
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 370.00 ft / 112.78 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 83,453 shp / 62,256 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 14,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,909 tons

Complement:
716 - 931

Cost:
£6.810 million / $27.240 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 646 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 3,432 tons, 21.3 %
- Belts: 1,106 tons, 6.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 860 tons, 5.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,425 tons, 8.8 %
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,371 tons, 14.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,675 tons, 41.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,908 tons, 18.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,477 lbs / 10,195 Kg = 45.0 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.84
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.490
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 50.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (40 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 20.78 ft / 6.33 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.0 %
Waterplane Area: 30,816 Square feet or 2,863 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 664 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.44
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I had totally forgotten about these, but I'll have the dockyard space by 34.

I was going to ask you about that. The first one would be laid down in Q2/34, the other one depends on other factors.

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
I was going to ask you about that. The first one would be laid down in Q2/34, the other one depends on other factors.

OK. Basilan will have cleared the slip by then, so we should be good.

The armament is very impressive for the size of the ship.. does anyone know what the range advantage of a 10" gun versus an 8" gun would be?

Nice, very impressive ships........ and all designed to beat a fleet that is due for replacement VERY soon!!!

And we are also comparing Treaty to NON-Treaty vessels!

I was hoping that Peru would end up buying El Cid, just for the humor factor, but I guess that isn't going to happen.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
I was hoping that Peru would end up buying El Cid, just for the humor factor, but I guess that isn't going to happen.

El Cid is destined for training duties, and eventual conversion to a museum.

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green
Nice, very impressive ships........ and all designed to beat a fleet that is due for replacement VERY soon!!!

Aren't all new ships?

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore GreenAnd we are also comparing Treaty to NON-Treaty vessels!

Given the state of the current treaty looks like soon we will be compairing apples with apples...

True....on both counts!

Hopefully you´re wrong....

Quoted

does anyone know what the range advantage of a 10" gun versus an 8" gun would be?

Inconsequential. Higher hit probablilty from the 10" gun though, but not by much.

I like this design very much. It achieves alot on such a small displacement and it is very similar to such concepts I had a year or so back but I was aiming for 33-34kts speeds. Maybe such ships will come to Argentina later on in the 1930s?

Santa Marias and El Cid will outfight her. They have much better armour. Still an excellent design for the displacement!

The Santa Marias are slower and El Cid has less deck armor, while Villa has better guns. So Villa can evade the Santa marias if neccesary and has the advantage over El Cid at long range, so while weaker I think Villa stands a good chance of fighting either of the two classes to a draw.

But isn't a draw a win for Iberia? I think trading firepower and armor for additional speed would be a better approach, so such scenarios can be avoided altogether.

Well only El Cid can catch her, and there's only one El Cid to two of these. Ill take a draw against El Cid anytime.