WesWorld

okie,

i've reallly thought about this. So I asked smilingassassin a question about how the naval battles are handled. He said it's all scripted. I was just like...uhhh, huh?

Okay so I don't know what that is. But I have an idea of my own. lol. Okay...I did this one before when comparing two ship designs on anotherforum. What I did, is used the survivability (flotability) as a straight figure (meaning I take it at the number springsharp specifies, plus or minus 5%). So if Design(X) says a random BB can survive x20 16" hits, you'd use that number plus or minus 5%. The idea being that the survival chance is randomized. A dice would be rolled to determine whether a ship got the 5% or not, and it would work like this-

If 1,2 or 3 is rolled it's minus. If 4,5 or 6 is rolled it's plus. That simple! This is meant to ensure randomization to a logical extent.

Now stats!

First you figure stats for all the guns. I'd use biggun.exe or the like. Then you figure distances. The two sides then give the distances at which they would fire in a linear format. What it means is that no more than the specified percentage will be fired at those ranges.

Example:
10,000 yard or less= 50% of main magazines
XX% of secondary magazines ect.

20,000 yards or less= 25% of main magazines
XX% of secondary magazines

30,000 yards or less=25%
XX%

40,000 yards or less=0% of main magazines
XX%

blah blah. okie dokie, what that means is that all naval conflicts are assumed to start at the maximum gun range of the ship with the longest gun range, even if neither ship fires at that maximum range (which is logical cuz the accuracy would be crap so why waste ammunition). So if player 1 doesnt want to fire at 40,000 yards they will specify 0% of all magazines at that range. That way no ammo is expended at such a great range. Thats why I used the peculiar system above for determining when to fire. However counter-firing will also be determined by the player.

Such as 1 in 2 (out of every 2 salvo's the opposing ship fires, your ship only counters with 1). Of course 1 in 1 would mean that for every time the opposing force attacks. This is only applied to attacks from the enemy that occur at a range when you had stated 0%, or had run out of the ammo specified for usage at that range.

crap accuracy will be determined through this model of accuracy ratio which is applied to every shell fired:


10,000 yards: 1.47:1 = 32.7% chance of hit
20,000 yards: 2.56:1 = 10.5% chance of hit
30,000 yards: 1.92:1 = 2.7% chance of hit
40,000 yards 2.20:1 = 0.90% chance of hit

(note: based on accuracy for 16" Mk 7's with top spot)

Finally, armor penetration checks are made using NAaB. This will define at what ranges shells will penetrate or not penetrate. Critical hits play no part in this sim since it's too subjective.

When players play they specify these armor stats:
-Inclination (angle) of armor belts
-Era of armor design (just specify a year such as 1890 or such)

Finally speed also plays a part.

A.) Speed dictates which ship fires first
B.) Speed dictates whether a ship can retreat and outrun the other ship
C.) If one ship is faster by at least 2 kt then the other ship cannot escape

That creates the situation in which the player has to have discerned at what damage percentage their ship will disengage )i.e not follow the enemy ship or attempt to retreat itself.

It uses the survivability statistics. So if you select that your ship will fight as long as it has sustained less than 50% of it's total then it will fight until taking that much damage. Additionally, fights of honor can be specified in which both players specify both ships to disengage when one ship reaches a certain damage percentile (such as 50%).
That way neither ship is sunk. I only decided to provide that option since a lot of people on here play for fun and that leaves the door open for fun without losing the ships that you get attached to.

And thats all! If people think it's too complicated maybe I can mediate and do the calculations? Kind of like a referee? I imagine a mediator would have to handle it to avoid any type of fraud in the process. Because you never know...the players might have their own interests at heart even thos the sim is just for fun.

The steps above should be presented in the order outlined. Or whatever u choose.
---------------------------------------------------------------
What does everyone think about it? Does it suck? Is it too complicated? :-(

It´s an interesting approach for sure. Sounds preatty easy to use...

alt_naval is our wargame guru and I´d like to hear his comments on this one. He has done some work to put together battle rules. Probably some other player has´a link at hand to show you his work.

Interesting. Anyone up for a cruiser and destroyer fight to try it out?

I've still not found time to focus on Altnaval's system to test it out properly. Which is sad since its been several weeks now since he sent me the files on it.

which are good things. So much time in modern wargaming is taken up with endless table lookups and interminable dice-rolling.


The offer to be Ref is helpful too.

Quoted

Originally posted by AdmKuznetsov
which are good things. So much time in modern wargaming is taken up with endless table lookups and interminable dice-rolling.


The offer to be Ref is helpful too.

yup. with someone who knows how to do it this entire process takes about 5 mins. So it's pretty quick.

One thing that some people might not like is that it uses predetermined orders. Such as how much of the magazines may be used at a given range and when the ship should retreat or pursue. I think players will really need to think strategically and learn to evaluate ship strengths and weaknesses in order to stay on the top of the pile so to speak.

AND, I've ordered Harpoon 3 and i'm currently waiting for it to arrive. So hopefully I might be able to use it to lend new benefits to the sim.

Would anyone like to see a demonstration??

I'm composing an engagement starting at 50,000 yards between:

x1 Type 1 A-1 Battleships
&
x1 Type 4 A-11 Battleship

Quoted

Originally posted by Salaam86
Would anyone like to see a demonstration??

I'm composing an engagement starting at 50,000 yards between:

x1 Type 1 A-1 Battleships
&
x1 Type 4 A-11 Battleship

PRE-ENGAGEMENT REPORT:

5% bonus

Type 1 A-1:

Firing Criteria:
50,000 yards= 0% of the magazines
=0% counter-battery fire (0/1 return salvo ratio)

40,000 yards= 0% of the magazines
=25% counter-battery fire (1/4 return-salvo ratio)
*But not expending more than 5% of magazines without damage taken

30,000 yards= 5% of the magazines
=75% counter battery fire (3/4 return-salvo ratio)

25,000 yards= 20% of the magazines
=100% counter battery fire (1/1 return-salvo ratio)

20,000 yards= 25% of the magazines
=100% counter-battery fire (1/1 return-salvo ratio)

10,000 yards or less= 50% of the magazines
=Counter-firing is irrelevant since all the magazines are free to be expent at this range

Type 4 A-11:
Identical to above**

Armor specifications
Type 1 A-1:
15 deg armor slant
Armor best for era specified

Type 4 A-11:
19 deg armor slant
Armor best for era specified

G02E 14"/56
Caliber = 14.0 inch (35.6 cm)
Shell weight = 1483 lbs (673 kg)
Muzzle velocity = 2978 fps (908 m/s)
Relative ballistic performance: 1.10
Muzzle energy = 277.3 megajoules = 102177.2 foot-tons
Relative muzzle energy: 1.16
Barrel length: 56 calibers


Elevation Range Time Velocity Fall Angle

2.5 deg 7100 yards 7.9 sec 2504 fps 2.8 deg
5.0 deg 12900 yards 15.3 sec 2190 fps 6.2 deg
7.5 deg 17700 yards 22.3 sec 1975 fps 9.8 deg
10.0 deg 21800 yards 29.0 sec 1824 fps 13.8 deg
12.5 deg 25400 yards 35.5 sec 1719 fps 17.9 deg
15.0 deg 28700 yards 41.7 sec 1649 fps 21.9 deg
20.0 deg 34400 yards 53.7 sec 1577 fps 29.6 deg
25.0 deg 39100 yards 65.1 sec 1566 fps 36.5 deg
30.0 deg 43100 yards 76.0 sec 1591 fps 42.4 deg
35.0 deg 46400 yards 86.4 sec 1635 fps 47.5 deg
40.0 deg 48700 yards 96.4 sec 1688 fps 51.9 deg
45.0 deg 50000 yards 105.9 sec 1745 fps 55.9 deg
50.0 deg 50000 yards 114.7 sec 1800 fps 59.5 deg


Armor Penetration - Belt Inclined 19 degrees

(Relative armor quality, 1.00)

Maximum penetration: 29.30 inches


Elevation Range Belt Deck

1.1 deg 3300 yards 26 in
1.9 deg 5600 yards 24 in
2.9 deg 8000 yards 22 in
3.5 deg 9400 yards ... 1 in
3.9 deg 10500 yards 20 in
5.3 deg 13400 yards 18 in
6.5 deg 15900 yards ... 2 in
6.9 deg 16500 yards 16 in
8.8 deg 20000 yards 14 in
10.0 deg 21800 yards ... 3 in
11.4 deg 23900 yards 12 in
14.7 deg 28400 yards ... 4 in
14.8 deg 28400 yards 10 in
19.1 deg 33400 yards ... 5 in
19.5 deg 33800 yards 8 in
22.5 deg 36900 yards ... 6 in
26.1 deg 40100 yards ... 7 in
26.1 deg 40100 yards 6 in
29.7 deg 42900 yards ... 8 in
33.4 deg 45400 yards ... 9 in
37.2 deg 47500 yards ... 10 in
37.4 deg 47600 yards 4 in
41.0 deg 49000 yards ... 11 in
45.0 deg 50000 yards ... 12 in
49.2 deg 50100 yards ... 13 in


Maximum range = 50100 yards at 47.6 deg elevation

Type 4 guns:

G05XF 15"/47


Caliber = 15.0 inch (38.1 cm)
Shell weight = 2225 lbs (1010 kg)
Muzzle velocity = 2399 fps (731 m/s)

Relative ballistic performance: 1.10

Muzzle energy = 270.0 megajoules = 99498.2 foot-tons

Relative muzzle energy: 0.92

Barrel length: 47 calibers


Elevation Range Time Velocity Fall Angle

2.5 deg 4900 yards 6.5 sec 2189 fps 2.7 deg
5.0 deg 9200 yards 12.7 sec 2025 fps 5.7 deg
7.5 deg 13100 yards 18.7 sec 1895 fps 8.8 deg
10.0 deg 16600 yards 24.5 sec 1795 fps 12.1 deg
12.5 deg 19700 yards 30.2 sec 1717 fps 15.6 deg
15.0 deg 22600 yards 35.8 sec 1659 fps 19.1 deg
20.0 deg 27500 yards 46.4 sec 1589 fps 26.0 deg
25.0 deg 31600 yards 56.6 sec 1564 fps 32.5 deg
30.0 deg 34900 yards 66.2 sec 1569 fps 38.4 deg
35.0 deg 37500 yards 75.4 sec 1592 fps 43.7 deg
40.0 deg 39100 yards 84.1 sec 1625 fps 48.6 deg
45.0 deg 39800 yards 92.3 sec 1663 fps 53.1 deg
50.0 deg 39500 yards 99.9 sec 1702 fps 57.3 deg


Armor Penetration - Belt Inclined 19 degrees

(Relative armor quality, 1.00)

Maximum penetration: 26.86 inches


Elevation Range Belt Deck

1.9 deg 3800 yards 24 in
3.5 deg 6700 yards 22 in
3.5 deg 6800 yards ... 1 in
5.3 deg 9800 yards 20 in
6.5 deg 11600 yards ... 2 in
7.4 deg 13000 yards 18 in
9.5 deg 16000 yards ... 3 in
10.0 deg 16500 yards 16 in
13.0 deg 20300 yards 14 in
13.1 deg 20400 yards ... 4 in
16.7 deg 24400 yards 12 in
17.9 deg 25500 yards ... 5 in
21.4 deg 28800 yards 10 in
21.5 deg 28800 yards ... 6 in
24.6 deg 31300 yards ... 7 in
27.3 deg 33200 yards 8 in
27.8 deg 33600 yards ... 8 in
31.0 deg 35500 yards ... 9 in
34.2 deg 37100 yards ... 10 in
34.7 deg 37300 yards 6 in
37.5 deg 38400 yards ... 11 in
41.0 deg 39300 yards ... 12 in
44.5 deg 39800 yards ... 13 in
46.4 deg 39800 yards 4 in
48.1 deg 39700 yards ... 14 in


Maximum range = 39800 yards at 46.0 deg elevation

Type 1 secondary armament:
G04 8"/60


Caliber = 8.0 inch (20.3 cm)
Shell weight = 338 lbs (153 kg)
Muzzle velocity = 2821 fps (860 m/s)

Relative ballistic performance: 1.10

Muzzle energy = 56.721 megajoules = 20901.7 foot-tons

Relative muzzle energy: 1.28

Barrel length: 60 calibers


Elevation Range Time Velocity Fall Angle

2.5 deg 6200 yards 7.4 sec 2273 fps 2.9 deg
5.0 deg 11000 yards 14.3 sec 1936 fps 6.5 deg
7.5 deg 14800 yards 20.7 sec 1718 fps 10.4 deg
10.0 deg 18100 yards 26.8 sec 1570 fps 14.7 deg
12.5 deg 20900 yards 32.7 sec 1468 fps 19.1 deg
15.0 deg 23400 yards 38.3 sec 1401 fps 23.5 deg
20.0 deg 27600 yards 49.0 sec 1335 fps 31.8 deg
25.0 deg 31000 yards 59.1 sec 1323 fps 39.0 deg
30.0 deg 33800 yards 68.7 sec 1343 fps 45.2 deg
35.0 deg 36000 yards 77.9 sec 1380 fps 50.4 deg
40.0 deg 37500 yards 86.7 sec 1426 fps 54.9 deg
45.0 deg 38300 yards 95.0 sec 1473 fps 58.8 deg
50.0 deg 38100 yards 102.8 sec 1521 fps 62.3 deg


Armor Penetration - Belt Inclined 19 degrees

(Relative armor quality, 1.00)

Maximum penetration: 17.80 inches


Elevation Range Belt Deck

1.8 deg 4800 yards 14 in
3.3 deg 7800 yards 12 in
5.1 deg 11200 yards 10 in
5.6 deg 12000 yards ... 1 in
7.9 deg 15400 yards 8 in
12.1 deg 20400 yards 6 in
12.4 deg 20700 yards ... 2 in
19.2 deg 27000 yards 4 in
20.0 deg 27600 yards ... 3 in
26.5 deg 31900 yards ... 4 in
33.4 deg 35400 yards ... 5 in
34.7 deg 35900 yards 2 in
40.8 deg 37700 yards ... 6 in
48.8 deg 38200 yards ... 7 in


Maximum range = 38300 yards at 46.8 deg elevation


Type 4 secondary armament:

G013 5"/56


Caliber = 5.0 inch (12.7 cm)
Shell weight = 68 lbs (31 kg)
Muzzle velocity = 2968 fps (905 m/s)

Relative ballistic performance: 1.10

Muzzle energy = 12.631 megajoules = 4654.6 foot-tons

Relative muzzle energy: 1.16

Barrel length: 56 calibers


Elevation Range Time Velocity Fall Angle

2.5 deg 6000 yards 7.5 sec 1979 fps 3.3 deg
5.0 deg 9800 yards 14.0 sec 1550 fps 7.7 deg
7.5 deg 12500 yards 20.0 sec 1312 fps 12.8 deg
10.0 deg 14700 yards 25.4 sec 1174 fps 18.1 deg
12.5 deg 16500 yards 30.6 sec 1086 fps 23.7 deg
15.0 deg 18100 yards 35.5 sec 1034 fps 29.0 deg
20.0 deg 20600 yards 44.7 sec 991 fps 38.6 deg
25.0 deg 22600 yards 53.3 sec 993 fps 46.5 deg
30.0 deg 24200 yards 61.4 sec 1016 fps 52.8 deg
35.0 deg 25300 yards 69.2 sec 1050 fps 58.0 deg
40.0 deg 26100 yards 76.7 sec 1087 fps 62.2 deg
45.0 deg 26300 yards 83.7 sec 1123 fps 65.7 deg
50.0 deg 26000 yards 90.3 sec 1159 fps 68.7 deg


Armor Penetration - Belt Inclined 19 degrees

(Relative armor quality, 1.00)

Maximum penetration: 10.46 inches


Elevation Range Belt Deck

2.4 deg 5800 yards 6 in
5.1 deg 9900 yards 4 in
12.2 deg 16400 yards 2 in
14.3 deg 17700 yards ... 1 in
30.1 deg 24200 yards ... 2 in


Maximum range = 26300 yards at 44.8 deg elevation



TETRIARY BATTERIES NOT COUNTED

Rate of fires (per era limits):
G02E 2.0 RPM
G04 4.0 RPM
G05XF 2.0 RPM
G010 15 RPM

Transversal speeds:

28 kts= 56,710 yards per hour
=945 yards per min

BATTLE REPORT:
50,000 yards- No shots fired. Ships closing.
Type 1 A-1= 28 kt speed
Type 4 A-11= 28 kt speed
10.5 mins

40,000 yards and closing- No shots fired. Ships closing.
Type 1 A-1= 28 kts speed
Type 4 A-11= 28 kt speed
10.5 mins

30,000 yards and closing- Shots fired. Ships closing.
Type 1 A-1
Shots fired:
G02E:
X44
1 HIT

G04:
x80 shots fired
2 HITS

TOTAL LBS OF HITS: 2,199 lbs

SEMI PENETRATION with 1,483 lb shell
NaAB:
Plate-holed, normal plug punched out, but intact projectile rejected
Strike Velocity: 1643 FPS
Angle of hit: 21.9 deg

RESULT: 0 lbs true penetrating
------------------------------------------------------------
Type 4 A-11

G05XF:
X47 shots fired
X1 HIT

TOTAL LBS OF HITS: 2,225 lbs

SEMI PENETRATION with 2,225 lb shell
Plate-holed, normal plug bunched out, but intact projectile rejected
Strike velocity: 1,589 FPS
Strike Angle: 26.00

Result: 0 lbs true penetrating

------------------------------------
5 MINS


25,000 yards and closing- Shots fired. Ships closing.
Type 1 A-1
Shots fired:
G02E:
X80 shots fired
6 HITS

G04:
X320 shots fired
26 HITS

Total lbs of HITS: 17,686 lbs

SEMI Penetrating with 1,483 lb shell
Plate-holed, normal plug punched out, intact projectile rejected
Strike velocity: 1719 FPS
Strike Angle: 17.90 deg

Result: 0 lb true penetrating

Type 4 A-11
X90 shots fired
7 HITS

Total lbs of HITS: 15,575 lbs

TOTAL Penetration with 2,225 lb shell
Plate-holed, hit penetrates and explodes
If projectile is broken up, 80% of projectile exits plate backing
Strike velocity: 1659 FPS
Strike Angle: 19.1 deg
Exit Angle: 16.94 deg

Result: 15,575 lbs true penetrating
Type 1 A-1 takes 25.15% damage

--------------------------------------------------
5 MINS
-----------------------------------------------------------

20,000 yards and closing- Shots fired. Ships closing.
Type 1 A-1
G02E
X80 shots fired
8 HITS

G04
X320 shots fired
33 HITS

Total lbs of HITS: 23,017 lbs

TOTAL PENETRATION with 1,483 lb shell
Plate-holed, hit penetrates and explodes
If projectile is broken up, 80% exits plate backing
Strike Velocity: 1824 FPS
Strike angle: 13.8
Exit Angle: 13.80 deg

Result: 11,864 lbs true penetrating
Type 4 A-11 takes 10.1% damage

Type 4 A-11
G05XF
X90 shots fired
9 HITS

Total lbs of HITS: 20,025 lbs

TOTAL PENETRATION with 2,225 lb shell
Plate-holed, hit penetrates and explodes
If projectile is broken up, 80% exits plate backing
Strike velocity: 1,717 FPS
Strike Angle: 15.6 deg
Exit angle: 15.31 deg

Result: 20,025 lbs true penetrating
Type 1 A-1 takes 57.48% cumalative damage

---------------------------------------------------------
5 MINS
----------------------------------------------------------

BATTLE ENDS.
Type 1 A-1 either withdraws or sinks if trend continues (and it would)

Technical note based on historical combat fire: The longest range hit ever recorded by a battleship in a ship to ship engagement was between 26,000 and 26,500 yards. Firing at 30,000 yards is probable, but hitting is problematic. (Longest hits being battleship KM Scharnhorst with a modern 11" gun verses the carrier HMS Glorious and HMS Warspite with a modernized 15" gun verses the Italian battleship Guilio Cesare.)

Also note that the elevation of most battleship main guns do not allow for such long range fire as most would have elevations of 20 to 30 degrees. Some had as high as 40 degrees I believe, but you run into another problem at those ranges...seeing your target.

30,000 yards is just over 17 miles away. The longest recorded hit was just about 15 miles away. However they opened fire in that engagement (Scharnhorst vs. Glorious) around 16 and a quarter miles away (28,600 yards). Radar helps at those ranges, but optics seems to still win.

Now I'm not saying this in impossible. I'm just pointing out what happened and that combat at those ranges will be, by definition, difficult.

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
Technical note based on historical combat fire: The longest range hit ever recorded by a battleship in a ship to ship engagement was between 26,000 and 26,500 yards. Firing at 30,000 yards is probable, but hitting is problematic. (Longest hits being battleship KM Scharnhorst with a modern 11" gun verses the carrier HMS Glorious and HMS Warspite with a modernized 15" gun verses the Italian battleship Guilio Cesare.)

Also note that the elevation of most battleship main guns do not allow for such long range fire as most would have elevations of 20 to 30 degrees. Some had as high as 40 degrees I believe, but you run into another problem at those ranges...seeing your target.

30,000 yards is just over 17 miles away. The longest recorded hit was just about 15 miles away. However they opened fire in that engagement (Scharnhorst vs. Glorious) around 16 and a quarter miles away (28,600 yards). Radar helps at those ranges, but optics seems to still win.

Now I'm not saying this in impossible. I'm just pointing out what happened and that combat at those ranges will be, by definition, difficult.

I stated that at the beginning of this thread. The accuracy statistics as well are based on firing characteristics of the Mk. 7 gun. At 30,000 yards theres about a 2.7% chance of hit.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.htm

Accuracy During World War II
.
A Naval War College study performed during World War II estimated that an Iowa Class (BB-61) battleship firing with top spot against a target the size of the German battleship Bismarck would be expected to achieve the following hit percentages.
Range Percentage hits against a broadside target Percentage hits against an end-on target Ratio
10,000 yards (9,144 m) 32.7 22.3 1.47:1
20,000 yards (18,288 m) 10.5 4.1 2.56:1
30,000 yards (27,432 m) 2.7 1.4 1.92:1


The statistics are in the above link.

I'm not stupid. I know what I'm doing.

And as for the elevation of the guns:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.htm

Mark 7 guns could fire at an elevation of a maximum of 45 deg.

The guns are my design by the way.

Secondly you're wrong about not being able to see. The rangefinders were ontop the turret.

Quoted

Secondly you're wrong about not being able to see. The rangefinders were ontop the turret.

That not what I am refering to. I'm refering to the horizon. Your rangefinders on top of the turrets, if I read your ship's freeboard correctly and estimate the height of your turrets right woud be around 50 feet above the sea. At 50 feet your gunners will only be able to see a little over 8 and a half miles away. (not nautical miles). Your towers are probably 100 feet, maybe 110 feet high. Your lookouts won't be able to see more than 13 miles away if the weather is good. Now they may be able to see the tops of your opponent over the horizon as it is higher than sea level as well.

My question (not just for you, but in general) does anyone know how the longest recorded hits were made? Was radar used, spotter planes, or did the British and Germans have higher spotting tops allowing them to see 17 miles away?

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro

Quoted

Secondly you're wrong about not being able to see. The rangefinders were ontop the turret.

That not what I am refering to. I'm refering to the horizon. Your rangefinders on top of the turrets, if I read your ship's freeboard correctly and estimate the height of your turrets right woud be around 50 feet above the sea. At 50 feet your gunners will only be able to see a little over 8 and a half miles away. (not nautical miles). Your towers are probably 100 feet, maybe 110 feet high. Your lookouts won't be able to see more than 13 miles away if the weather is good. Now they may be able to see the tops of your opponent over the horizon as it is higher than sea level as well.

My question (not just for you, but in general) does anyone know how the longest recorded hits were made? Was radar used, spotter planes, or did the British and Germans have higher spotting tops allowing them to see 17 miles away?

My statistics are with a top spot.

Listen, lets just stop talking about this. It's irrelevant. The thread is about my new system of mechanics for naval warfare.

Hi,

Nice effort, I know what a problem this sort of exercise can be.

Quoted

Critical hits play no part in this sim since it's too subjective

How do you determine how much armour the shell has struck if you don't determine where the shell hit?

Is there any scope for manoeuvre?

Cheers,

Quoted

Originally posted by alt_naval
Hi,

Nice effort, I know what a problem this sort of exercise can be.

Quoted

Critical hits play no part in this sim since it's too subjective

How do you determine how much armour the shell has struck if you don't determine where the shell hit?

Is there any scope for manoeuvre?

Cheers,

No, everything is broken down statistically, since thats the only way to maintain accuracy. If I accounted for manoeuvre then I'd have to account for direction and angles of approach.

And springsharp doesn't account for place of shell strike, so its better to just leave it out rather than try to account for an unknown. We can't take hypothetical designs and apply a deck down damage criteria. So in order to assure that it's 100% accurate, 100% fair and 100% constant, I had to eliminate the random chance principles such as area of damage.

Critical hits are too iffy, since ships can be struck in vulnerable areas and not take critical damage. However other times that isnt the case. So in order to be 100% fair, critical hits must be left out.

How much armor is determined from the springsharp specs. The side armor and deck armor are used. Then the armor penetration is checked through NAaB in order to have maximum accuracy considering the statistical nature of the engagement.

Quoted

So in order to assure that it's 100% accurate, 100% fair and 100% constant, I had to eliminate the random chance principles such as area of damage.

So I can design battleships with no turret armour and have 6 or 7 guns per turret which would be 0% realistic?

Cheers,

Quoted

Originally posted by alt_naval

Quoted

So in order to assure that it's 100% accurate, 100% fair and 100% constant, I had to eliminate the random chance principles such as area of damage.

So I can design battleships with no turret armour and have 6 or 7 guns per turret which would be 0% realistic?

Cheers,

Well I assume the forum would have rules regarding stupidity.

Cheers.

btw, if u dont like it just say so. its not like u got to. but accounting for area of hit is stupid. just to let you know. because theres no way you could account for where the shell would hit. So your concept is far more unrealistic.

Critical hits are typical for games to simulate those really nasty things that happen to ships in combat. guns being knocked out, thus cutting their firepower. Flooding or engine damage, cutting their speed or range. Less or more serious hits that can decide a battle long before statistics comes to a conclusion.

However, fairness can be interesting as well.

A test for you Gabi. Take two historical engagements and run them with your system. I'm curious to see how they come out statistically rather than historically.

Battle of the River Plate:
Armored Cruiser KM Graf Spee
verses
Heavy Cruiser HMS Exeter and Light Cruiser HMS Ajax and HMS Achillies.


Hood verse Bismark:
Battleship KM Bismark and Heavy Cruiser Prinz Eugen
verses,
Battleship HMS Prince of Wales and Battlecruiser HMS Hood.

That might be interesting to see what statistically should have happened. A good alternate history exercise.

Just remember, war doesn't follow statistics, it creates them.