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Infrastructure rules?

alt_naval

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61

Tuesday, September 19th 2006, 12:58am

I agree there is a problem. I disagree that cheap factories for small powers is the solution.

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thesmilingassassin

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62

Tuesday, September 19th 2006, 7:29am

I'm not so sure, how expensive is it to build a type 4 drydock? Whats the monitary cost compaired to an armor factory?

Marek Gutkowski

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Tuesday, September 19th 2006, 10:06am

Cheap factories for smaller nations?
Im not certain that it will work I see lots of power gaming to be donne with that Rule on my part: prest PRJ has now not 11 factories but 30 in the span of 3 years
That way an empire will be build and were the fun in that....

What? Wait! Yes change the rules. Change it.
(joke)

thesmilingassassin

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Tuesday, September 19th 2006, 10:31am

Well, what other option do we have? we do have a certain degree of dis-pairity between some of the smaller nations infrastructure as it is.

HoOmAn

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65

Tuesday, September 19th 2006, 10:38am

Such is life....?!

thesmilingassassin

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Tuesday, September 19th 2006, 10:54am

What are we really trying to acomplish is my main question. Do we want cheaper factory's for smaller nations or more expensive ones for larger nations?

"Such is life....?!" would imply that the status quo would remain....

Ubiwan

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67

Tuesday, September 19th 2006, 11:15am

Yes that's life, but in the real life we have pay for the maintenance of the ships. And in order to prevent an arms race, we would have only find a regulation for it. Thus I hardly believe that all countries have the necessary resources, in order to be able to really afford such large fleets. Do Russia, England, the USA and Atlantis, but naturally also all other countries, have really these quantities of fuel, in order to be able to supply all their ships? But the fuel does not only play a role also the number of crews, and crews cost money. In addition, the everyday things for the supply of the crews (Fresh water, food, clothes and so on ). All these things are necessary to be able to keep around a ship in motion.

Ithekro

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68

Tuesday, September 19th 2006, 3:47pm

Idea?

Some of us are doing self restriction on ship numbers based on our starting numbers (of ships).

If I see the factory construction brake, the smaller nations only benifi until they hit 10 factories and then they start having problems just like the larger powers, and the larger powers start to find it harder and harder to increase their capacity, as will the smaller powers over the 10 or so factory line.

It won't be a run away on factory construction, and might balance out the high end of things as the larger countries find they have less people to work the factories (maybe?). The larger cost being a lack of workforce rather than being more diffucult to build said factory.

HoOmAn

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69

Tuesday, September 19th 2006, 6:13pm

Actually a rules that helps small powers might be interesting from a players point of view - at least for those controlling small powers, I agree. However, from an economists point of view there is nothing in OTL that supports such a rule. In fact, the opposite is true and the build up of infrastructure gets easier and easier the more you have to build on. It´s the economy of scale.

So while I agree a split of factories into half factories is a good idea for small powers that couldn´t otherwise distribute their economic power the way they need it, I otherwise doubt fiddling with factory costs without true maintenance rules will do us any good.

Commodore Green

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70

Wednesday, September 20th 2006, 1:44am

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
I'm not so sure, how expensive is it to build a type 4 drydock? Whats the monitary cost compaired to an armor factory?


I have to agree with Wes here.
It costs 5 IP to build a type 4 drydock, a glorified hole in the ground, while it costs 10 IP to build a factory. A hole in the ground does SFA for a country, while a factory would allow at most a small CL per year!!

alt_naval

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Wednesday, September 20th 2006, 2:46am

20 years for the factory to recover the investment but the drydock lets you build a ship today.

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Ithekro

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72

Wednesday, September 20th 2006, 3:08am

What good is a drydock if you don't have anything to put into it? (ships to refit or enough tonnage from a factory for your new ships)

alt_naval

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73

Wednesday, September 20th 2006, 4:51am

The Brits expended a destroyer and some commandoes to deny one to the Germans.

Ithekro

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Wednesday, September 20th 2006, 5:00am

The Germans had the factories to fill the drydock with something if they wanted to if I recall....places in Wesworld like Formosa really don't.

HoOmAn

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Wednesday, September 20th 2006, 10:25am

Well, Germans using French drydocks in OTL and Japanese using Formosean (?) drydocks in WesWorld...

Red Admiral

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76

Wednesday, September 20th 2006, 10:27am

If I remember correctly a graving dock to be built in Australia to fit either KGV or Lion size ships (so type 4) was to cost about £3m. KGV cost £8m for 35000tons of ship so a dock would cost 3/8 which is 13125tons or 1.3IP instead of the 5.0IP our rules provide for.

I think maintenance via Pugh would be the best bet.

thesmilingassassin

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77

Wednesday, September 20th 2006, 11:04am

Pugh?

Red Admiral

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78

Wednesday, September 20th 2006, 11:18am

The Cost of Seapower.

alt_naval posted a breakdown of lifetime costs from it. Buying /building the ship is only about 1/4 of the total cost.

alt_naval

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Wednesday, September 20th 2006, 12:05pm

I've been using it in my reports since 1930Q1. It is how I set active and reserve units in my OOB. The Greek fleet couldn't grow much bigger without eating into construction budget from the maintenance one - both set at 4,000,000 pounds.

IIRC a floating dock took the USN 18 months to build, this puts at about 20,000tons or 2 IP, sound fair.

Australian costs for warships was 1.5 times that for UK so maybe the 3/8 example is more like 1IP for a drydock in UK.

Cheers,