WesWorld

Was messing around with designs for NPCs, and came up with this...


BC32-254, Columbian Large Light Cruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
20,561 t light; 21,429 t standard; 23,485 t normal; 25,130 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
784.63 ft / 754.59 ft x 75.46 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load)
239.16 m / 230.00 m x 23.00 m x 8.00 m

Armament:
6 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (2x2 guns), 83.78lbs / 38.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (6x2 guns), 83.78lbs / 38.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (4x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts

Weight of broadside 4,480 lbs / 2,032 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.86" / 225 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 262.47 ft / 80.00 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.86" / 225 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 7.09" / 180 mm
2nd: 3.15" / 80 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 3.15" / 80 mm - -
4th: 1.18" / 30 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 160,000 shp / 119,360 Kw = 34.66 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,702 tons)

Complement:
948 - 1,233

Cost:
£8.414 million / $33.656 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 560 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 6,410 tons, 27.3 %
- Belts: 2,306 tons, 9.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,035 tons, 4.4 %
- Armour Deck: 3,013 tons, 12.8 %
- Conning Tower: 56 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,723 tons, 20.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,718 tons, 37.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,925 tons, 12.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
31,599 lbs / 14,333 Kg = 63.2 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 33.53 ft / 10.22 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.43 ft / 7.75 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.51 ft / 6.86 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 22.51 ft / 6.86 m
- Stern: 22.51 ft / 6.86 m
- Average freeboard: 24.18 ft / 7.37 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178.7 %
Waterplane Area: 41,372 Square feet or 3,844 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 667 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.22
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Shoot, Swampy with that title, I'd thought you were finally putting Tesla to work...

Maybe captured by, uh, pirates....

You, sir, are crazy! I like it.

Although I have to say, Brazil's BCs mount 12" guns on only 3,000 tons more. And of course the Argies have their big ships as well.

Still, this ship has speed, and it can eat up treaty cruisers, that's for sure.

Who's building it? Local yards?

Technically Chile could build it, but it would need a free slip or dock (the historical Chilean dock is 800 feet long)

But in what way is that a light cruiser?

I'm thinking in the weird sisters way.

I was thinking of it perhaps being a Canadian build, what with the 5.5" secondaries, actually. I haven't kept much track of the South American politics, so i'm unsure who I'd be annoying by offering to do so. :B

So the large "light" cruiser version has what, quad 6 inch guns?

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
Technically Chile could build it, but it would need a free slip or dock (the historical Chilean dock is 800 feet long)

But in what way is that a light cruiser?

I think Swampy is making a reference to Renown/Repulse's original classification (if i remember correctly).

The Weird Sisters; Courageous, Glorious, Furious. As built, were classed as Large Light Cruisers to get around the admiralty or parliment that didn't want anymore battleships/battlecruisers. Also because while having large guns, they were armoured in light cruiser fashion (or worse so).

R&R actually have some manner of armour, which these beasties seem to as well.

The armor on this is not all that thin though. That's why I didn't see a Furious connection. The armor is thicker than most heavy cruisers...though it looks rather limited in the length of hull it protects.

I'm just saying where the term comes from, not why Swampy chose it. o.O
Might have to do with the main guns in two turrets and the 5.5" secondaries, I guess.

The ship is an oddity and not very balanced. There´s no need for such high speeds and the theory "speed is protection" has long been replaced by "you can´t outrun a shell".

I can´t see the Columbians pay for such a vessel. If they had the money for such a large and expensive toy they´d sure go for something conservative, somethings probably not outstanding but solid. They need something to protect their possessions, shore and shipping, not something to go out hunting cruisers. What if a single 8,000ts CDS - and there are enough around with guns above 8" and enough speed - attacks shipping "protected" by this monster? I´d take a NAGELRING or TYRFING-class against her anyday.

It may be fun simming such a ship but I hardly see any third tier nation building/buying her. Let´s keep this realistic.

Well for a Columbian fleet, I was eventually musing that the Pacific fleet would be 1 LBC+2CA+4CL+8DD. (obviously inspired by India's one-time "Cruiser Navy" scheme)

While it may not be really realistic for a nation like Columbia, I have two words for you: Banana Republic. ;-) One of these would make a fine "National Pride" flagship...and while coastal defense may be a legitimate concern, I can't see an ex-Iberian country willingly settling for a flagship inferior to...yes...El Cid.

(But there may be "Other Plans" for Columbia anyway *cough* .)

The "large light cruiser" designation came because neither Battlecruiser, Armoured Cruiser and Heavy Cruiser seemed to fit properly...

The 5.5" guns were supposed to be Atlantian, actually.

Quoted

Although I have to say, Brazil's BCs mount 12" guns on only 3,000 tons more. And of course the Argies have their big ships as well.

The overriding factor here was speed. ;-) (I've actually a rather similar design with less speed, less armour, and ~32.5 knots with 2x3 14", but thought it too slow...).

But, as Hoo pointed out - it's more a Design Exercise than anything else.

Quoted

Shoot, Swampy with that title, I'd thought you were finally putting Tesla to work...

Heh heh heh. I'm afraid Mr. Tesla's Coils will probably be a United States Secret here. Now there is of course more than one way to build a raygun, but where are you going to get enough ectoplasm...

Quoted

but where are you going to get enough ectoplasm

Ah, there's heaps of the stuff high in the Andes. You just gotta know where to look.

Quoted

One of these would make a fine "National Pride" flagship...and while coastal defense may be a legitimate concern, I can't see an ex-Iberian country willingly settling for a flagship inferior to...yes...El Cid.

Ah the Chilean mentality in designing the Tylor and Oyama-class armored cruisers. Counter El Cid.

El Cid is just one ship. He can't be everywhere at once.

She's not really that fast either. I came up with this some time ago after playing around with the historical Stalingrad class. Very fast, enough armour, but light on gun power.

Powerful, Battlecruiser laid down 1936

Displacement:
39,583 t light; 41,179 t standard; 43,894 t normal; 46,065 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
917.01 ft / 885.83 ft x 104.99 ft x 31.17 ft (normal load)
279.51 m / 270.00 m x 32.00 m x 9.50 m

Armament:
9 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (3x3 guns), 996.49lbs / 452.00kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
18 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (9x2 guns), 79.37lbs / 36.00kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 5 raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.83lbs / 0.83kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 10,456 lbs / 4,743 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.06" / 230 mm 561.02 ft / 171.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 561.02 ft / 171.00 m 28.18 ft / 8.59 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.12" / 130 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 280,000 shp / 208,880 Kw = 36.78 kts
Range 4,900nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,886 tons

Complement:
1,516 - 1,971

Cost:
£18.113 million / $72.453 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,131 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 13,334 tons, 30.4 %
- Belts: 3,544 tons, 8.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,152 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 2,287 tons, 5.2 %
- Armour Deck: 6,277 tons, 14.3 %
- Conning Tower: 74 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 7,856 tons, 17.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,162 tons, 39.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,311 tons, 9.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
62,918 lbs / 28,539 Kg = 72.7 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 8.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.530
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 34.31 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 42.65 ft / 13.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Stern: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 28.69 ft / 8.75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 224.9 %
Waterplane Area: 66,290 Square feet or 6,159 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 880 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.28
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

I like fast ships but for a ship of that size, I think Powerful's too fast and the main gun caliber is just too small.

I was going to say Powerful is a little too deck heavy, with all that armor, if she didn't have the belt, she'd be a huge protected cruiser. But speed isn't everything yet. If you move at flank you probably won't be able to hit your targets either, even with 12 inch guns.

But she's kind of like the Alaska's a some respects. But more like Repulse or Invicible's newer cousin.

In this age I'd stay will the high 20s or low 30s and keep he armor up to deflect most cruiser shells, abd keep a good sized gun type to punch through any heavy cruiser's armor. But I wouldn't suggest taking on capital ships, even battlecrusiers unless forced into a fight. Finding and killing an aircraft carrier would be great, but getting close is hard with all the air patrols and screening vessels.

By 1942 though, if the world goes though the aircraft carrier battles, the gun cruisers and battleships will be nearing the end of their surface action days. Thought they will still have a role to fill, even today. (I'd love to have an old...or even a new...cruiser or battleship able to sit off the coast and shell targets).

I think Swampy's reading my mind! I'd already planned a cruiser very similar to this. I was going to scrap the SANTÍSIMA TRINIDAD and her sister and reuse the 10in guns. I was looking for 32-33kts speed, I was thinking along the lines of a fast Graf Spee.
I've modified her since my intial thoughts (lighter and more guns) and it is a long term project. Here's a sneak peek.

La Argentina, Argentina Heavy Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
14,469 t light; 15,152 t standard; 16,293 t normal; 17,207 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
697.93 ft / 688.98 ft x 71.52 ft x 21.39 ft (normal load)
212.73 m / 210.00 m x 21.80 m x 6.52 m

Armament:
8 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (4x2 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1906 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (4x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
12 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x6 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 4,465 lbs / 2,025 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 140
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.30" / 160 mm 380.58 ft / 116.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 4.50" / 114 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
4th: 0.47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 96,800 shp / 72,213 Kw = 32.01 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,055 tons

Complement:
720 - 937

Cost:
£6.888 million / $27.551 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 549 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 4,193 tons, 25.7 %
- Belts: 1,014 tons, 6.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,046 tons, 6.4 %
- Armour Deck: 2,068 tons, 12.7 %
- Conning Tower: 65 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,750 tons, 16.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,897 tons, 42.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,824 tons, 11.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24,317 lbs / 11,030 Kg = 48.6 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.541
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.90 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Mid (70 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.11 ft / 6.13 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.1 %
Waterplane Area: 35,496 Square feet or 3,298 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 656 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.08
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

RA, 280khp on 4 shafts - is that possible with 1930s technology? I´d expect naval designers to have some problems bringing this much power into the sea. There are noway to simulate the flow of water around a high speed screw like there is today etc....