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Ubiwan

Unregistered

1

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 8:52am

Zunyi - Class

Today, the CEO of the CNDO Mr. Cheung presents the newest ship type of the chinese navy.

Zunyi, China Pirate Hunter laid down 1932

Displacement:
8.183 t light; 8.879 t standard; 10.570 t normal; 11.923 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
581,50 ft / 557,74 ft x 55,77 ft x 23,79 ft (normal load)
177,24 m / 170,00 m x 17,00 m x 7,25 m

Armament:
9 - 7,99" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 255,24lbs / 115,77kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
Main guns limited to end-on fire
4 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1931 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1931 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 2.394 lbs / 1.086 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 360
8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1,97" / 50 mm 389,44 ft / 118,70 m 8,96 ft / 2,73 m
Ends: 0,79" / 20 mm 149,93 ft / 45,70 m 8,96 ft / 2,73 m
18,37 ft / 5,60 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 1,38" / 35 mm 389,44 ft / 118,70 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 107% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3,35" / 85 mm 2,56" / 65 mm 0,98" / 25 mm
2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 0,59" / 15 mm
3rd: 0,28" / 7 mm 0,08" / 2 mm -
4th: 0,28" / 7 mm 0,08" / 2 mm -

- Armour deck: 1,38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 3,15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 49.500 shp / 36.927 Kw = 28,50 kts
Range 8.000nm at 19,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3.044 tons

Complement:
520 - 677

Cost:
£3,251 million / $13,003 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 299 tons, 2,8%
Armour: 1.287 tons, 12,2%
- Belts: 499 tons, 4,7%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 206 tons, 1,9%
- Armour Deck: 549 tons, 5,2%
- Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0,3%
Machinery: 1.480 tons, 14,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.766 tons, 45,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.388 tons, 22,6%
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 3,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16.558 lbs / 7.510 Kg = 64,9 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03
Metacentric height 2,2 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 15,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 92 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1,33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,85

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,500
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,95 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9,68 ft / 2,95 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30,18 ft / 9,20 m
- Forecastle (16%): 22,15 ft / 6,75 m
- Mid (50%): 22,47 ft / 6,85 m
- Quarterdeck (13%): 22,47 ft / 6,85 m
- Stern: 23,62 ft / 7,20 m
- Average freeboard: 22,95 ft / 7,00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145,5%
Waterplane Area: 21.554 Square feet or 2.002 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 151%


Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 571 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,00
- Longitudinal: 3,05
- Overall: 1,12
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather



HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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2

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 10:17am

Not sure if the aft 88mm gun can be placed that way....?! The platform necessary below the mount has to take on quite some forces.

In general she´s like "hammer with eggshells" - much like old-school BCs, but without those ships high speeds.

So the question is if the Chinese can affort such a purpose build unit? As a standard cruiser the unit is hardly very useful with her low speed and inferior (for her size) armor.

On the other hand her range is excessive....

3

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 11:44am

some suggestions

She's a large and expensive unit that can only be in one place. The anti-pirate mission on China's long coastline requires large numbers of corvettes and patrol ships, so the pirates cannot evade your efforts by just moving elsewhere. You'd be better off with using the tonnage for 20 400 ton cutters.

As to Zunyi herself, you could get more armor and survivability by reducing her freeboard and gun stability. I like good seakeeping and stability, but a rating of 1.2 and 0.70 is usually good enough, and seakeeping of 1.5 is as much as I'll try for. And I've got the North Cape and the Barents Sea to deal with. So seakeeping of 1.2 and gun stability of 70 will be plenty for Zunyi.

That will give you the increased hull strength you can use the on more armor and speed so she can perform the heavy cruiser mission.

4

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 12:48pm

Hi Ubiwan, where did you get that drawing and what is it? I have these and have been trying to find out what it is.




Ubiwan

Unregistered

5

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 12:54pm

uuupppsss

As you can see, they both look very similar ;-))))

On your pic it's an light cruiser which was planned in the Z-Plan of the third reich.

On my pic it's a pirate hunter for the chinese sea.

I hope to have eliminated all clarity.

6

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 1:03pm

Quoted

On your pic it's an light cruiser which was planned in the Z-Plan of the third reich.


No, I mean what source did you get your picture from and do you have any more details on the ship that I showed?

Ubiwan

Unregistered

7

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 1:10pm

I must check at home whether I still have more info to this ship.


############

@Adm. Kuszetzow:

I am the opinion, that I need both around to fight the pirates.

I need many small vehicles (Sloops, Trawlers etc.) to locate and observe the pirate ships.
For this reason the Chinese delegation bought also the license of the Indian UMRED Design.
But also large ships, which can take up and win the fight with the pirates, are needed.
And the ships of the Zunyi class are to take over this task.

8

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 3:23pm

Looks very Germanic, like a superfiring-turret-forwards expansion of the Lepizig/Nurnberg type.

Agree with regards to the hull; chop the freeboard quite a bit and up the speed.

9

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 3:37pm

Quoted

9 - 7,99" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 255,24lbs / 115,77kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
Main guns limited to end-on fire


Looks like the main armament is over-loading the hull, if it can't fire on the beams.

10

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 3:52pm

Recoil of 1.33? Yikes!

Freeboard (and trim) adjustments will help that, too.

Ubiwan

Unregistered

11

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 3:58pm

Better now ?

Zunyi, China Pirate Hunter laid down 1932

Displacement:
8.873 t light; 9.570 t standard; 10.570 t normal; 11.371 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
580,06 ft / 557,74 ft x 55,77 ft x 23,79 ft (normal load)
176,80 m / 170,00 m x 17,00 m x 7,25 m

Armament:
9 - 7,99" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 255,24lbs / 115,77kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1931 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1931 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 2.394 lbs / 1.086 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 360
8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2,17" / 55 mm 375,98 ft / 114,60 m 8,96 ft / 2,73 m
Ends: 0,98" / 25 mm 158,46 ft / 48,30 m 8,96 ft / 2,73 m
23,29 ft / 7,10 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 1,57" / 40 mm 375,98 ft / 114,60 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 104% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3,35" / 85 mm 2,56" / 65 mm 0,98" / 25 mm
2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 0,59" / 15 mm
3rd: 0,28" / 7 mm 0,08" / 2 mm -
4th: 0,28" / 7 mm 0,08" / 2 mm -

- Armour deck: 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3,15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 82.493 shp / 61.540 Kw = 32,50 kts
Range 6.000nm at 17,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1.801 tons

Complement:
520 - 677

Cost:
£3,959 million / $15,836 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 299 tons, 2,8%
Armour: 1.180 tons, 11,2%
- Belts: 550 tons, 5,2%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 205 tons, 1,9%
- Armour Deck: 392 tons, 3,7%
- Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0,3%
Machinery: 2.467 tons, 23,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.678 tons, 44,3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.697 tons, 16,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11.603 lbs / 5.263 Kg = 45,5 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06
Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 15,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,96
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,500
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,95 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28,87 ft / 8,80 m
- Forecastle (16%): 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
- Mid (50%): 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
- Quarterdeck (13%): 18,37 ft / 5,60 m (20,34 ft / 6,20 m before break)
- Stern: 18,37 ft / 5,60 m
- Average freeboard: 21,85 ft / 6,66 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103,3%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141,6%
Waterplane Area: 21.554 Square feet or 2.002 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 579 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,00
- Longitudinal: 2,61
- Overall: 1,10
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

12

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 4:08pm

Quite a bit better, yes. A bit of an egg-shell armed with a sledge-hammer, though: 8" main battery, but lighter armor than many 6" gunned ships. It might be worth trading the triples for twins and putting the weight saved into additional armor plate on the belt.

13

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 6:00pm

Of course some of the pirates are armed with some impressive ships, so finding them and then dispatching something like this to deal with them might be wise.

Might.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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14

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 6:11pm

I think the time of impressive pirate vessels is over, isn´t it? How realistic - even for WesWorld - is it to expect more cruiser like vessels? Somebody has to build them after all and a warship of this size is still high tech in the early 30s.....

15

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 7:15pm

I was thinking along the same lines; with the recent Australian success, there's only one confirmed cruiser-size-or-larger pirate vessel afloat (Harlock's); there is the one remaining AWOL Iberian-built predread, but somebody has to maintain it...

So any piratical activity from here out (again, barring Harlock) is extremely unlikely to involve anything larger than an AMC.



As for the ship, however, I think it has some merit as a "coastal defense cruiser"; the new design looks pretty good. I would use some of the spare hull-strength remaining to add a third 88mm mount (perhaps in the "Y" arrangement that some of the German CLs used).

16

Wednesday, July 12th 2006, 8:32pm

Number of pirate ships of cruisers size or above.

Mwhahahahah!

17

Thursday, July 13th 2006, 7:24am

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
I think the time of impressive pirate vessels is over, isn´t it? How realistic - even for WesWorld - is it to expect more cruiser like vessels? Somebody has to build them after all and a warship of this size is still high tech in the early 30s.....


I have to agree with Hoo and Swampy. Its unlikely that cruiser size vessels will still be available to Pirates. AMC's are a far less conspicuous and as such far more valuable to pirates. They are harder to distinguish and can carry a cruiser armament.

18

Thursday, July 13th 2006, 12:30pm

There's at least one pirate, other than Harlock, still operating off the Chinese coast with a warship-type vessel, it's been pictured and mentioned in some of China's news.

Ubiwan

Unregistered

19

Thursday, July 13th 2006, 2:47pm

I think you mean Shi Xuan and his "Ning Hai", i mentioned in my Q2/1931 - Part I - Report .

And this is, in my opinion, a pirate cruiser !

To the ship:
- I will change better on 4x2 in place of 3x3 in the main armament .
- I think a third 88's is needed in the front area.


Are there otherwise still suggestions?

20

Thursday, July 13th 2006, 2:54pm

Exactly, yes, that's the pirate's I was referring to.

My main issue with the design at current is it's armor, though one or two 88mm mountings forward would be a good thing. The armor at current is probably sufficient for fighting pirates whose access to SAP or AP rounds is probably limited, but its pretty poor for fighting other warships. And once the pirate scourge is eradicated, the ship will still be around.....