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Ubiwan

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41

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 10:21am

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Zunyi, China Heavy Cruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
10.842 t light; 11.313 t standard; 12.859 t normal; 14.095 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
576,65 ft / 557,74 ft x 57,41 ft x 24,44 ft (normal load)
175,76 m / 170,00 m x 17,50 m x 7,45 m

Armament:
9 - 7,99" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 255,24lbs / 115,77kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1932 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2.645 lbs / 1.200 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 140
8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 345,80 ft / 105,40 m 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 3,74" / 95 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0,98" / 25 mm - -
5th: 0,47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3,35" / 85 mm, Conning tower: 5,51" / 140 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 97.337 shp / 72.613 Kw = 31,40 kts
Range 9.000nm at 16,10 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.782 tons

Complement:
603 - 784

Cost:
£4,816 million / $19,262 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 331 tons, 2,6%
Armour: 2.872 tons, 22,3%
- Belts: 763 tons, 5,9%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 628 tons, 4,9%
- Armour Deck: 1.416 tons, 11,0%
- Conning Tower: 65 tons, 0,5%
Machinery: 2.873 tons, 22,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.616 tons, 35,9%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.017 tons, 15,7%
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14.590 lbs / 6.618 Kg = 57,2 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06
Metacentric height 2,5 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 15,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,81
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,575
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5,91 ft / 1,80 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27,89 ft / 8,50 m
- Forecastle (18%): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Mid (50%): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 17,72 ft / 5,40 m (20,01 ft / 6,10 m before break)
- Stern: 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
- Average freeboard: 21,03 ft / 6,41 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94,0%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125,6%
Waterplane Area: 22.879 Square feet or 2.126 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 559 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,91
- Overall: 1,03
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


###############################################
I hope i have learned a little and this version is now better than the others.

42

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 12:14pm

Definitely better. Now the deck armor is probably more than you need, and are you really thinking of 4 twin 88mm mounts aft AND 4 on the sides? Given this design, I'd consider a somewhat heavier secondary battery, as the 88mm is not a very good anti-destroyer weapon.

43

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 12:24pm

Perhaps a 4.7 or 5.1" secondary armament would be better. The 88's could be cut down to 3x2.

I'm not so convinced that the 88 would be insufficient vs. DD's when looking at the historical Hipper class CA's, but it wouldn't hurt to have a heavier secondary armament anyway.

44

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 1:47pm

The historical Hippers, like the WW Hippers, carried a 105mm secondary battery.

Ubiwan

Unregistered

45

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 1:55pm

Zunyi, China Heavy Cruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
10.840 t light; 11.313 t standard; 12.859 t normal; 14.095 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
576,65 ft / 557,74 ft x 57,41 ft x 24,44 ft (normal load)
175,76 m / 170,00 m x 17,50 m x 7,45 m

Armament:
9 - 7,99" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 255,24lbs / 115,77kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread
4 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1932 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2.678 lbs / 1.215 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 140
8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 345,80 ft / 105,40 m 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 3,74" / 95 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
2nd: 4,13" / 105 mm 2,95" / 75 mm 4,13" / 105 mm
3rd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0,98" / 25 mm - -
5th: 0,47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,77" / 45 mm, Conning tower: 5,51" / 140 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 97.337 shp / 72.613 Kw = 31,40 kts
Range 9.000nm at 16,10 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.782 tons

Complement:
603 - 784

Cost:
£4,831 million / $19,324 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 335 tons, 2,6%
Armour: 2.370 tons, 18,4%
- Belts: 763 tons, 5,9%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 792 tons, 6,2%
- Armour Deck: 750 tons, 5,8%
- Conning Tower: 65 tons, 0,5%
Machinery: 2.873 tons, 22,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.112 tons, 39,8%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.019 tons, 15,7%
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14.348 lbs / 6.508 Kg = 56,2 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03
Metacentric height 2,3 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 15,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,83
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,575
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5,91 ft / 1,80 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27,89 ft / 8,50 m
- Forecastle (18%): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Mid (50%): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 17,72 ft / 5,40 m (20,01 ft / 6,10 m before break)
- Stern: 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
- Average freeboard: 21,03 ft / 6,41 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94,2%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125,6%
Waterplane Area: 22.879 Square feet or 2.126 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 620 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,05
- Longitudinal: 2,06
- Overall: 1,12
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


#######################################
Now with 105mm second artillery and 88's as Heavy AA-Gun

46

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 2:14pm

The historical (and WW) Hippers 105mm's were dual-purpose guns, so there's no need for both 105mm and 88mm weapons. If you'd like a dedicated low-angle secondary, use something heavier than the 105mm and keep a few 88mms. But if you want a dual-purpose secondary, the 105mm will work fine.

The 105mm is a quick-firing gun (1 piece ammunition), and you can probably install it in mount and hoist mountings rather than turret & barbette mounts.

Deck armor is now fairly normal for this size of ship, you could probably go as high as 60mm without it being overly heavy.

By the look of the ships hull strength, you can probably make it a bit smaller without causing any trouble. Either reduce the
block coefficient, or the draught.

Ubiwan

Unregistered

47

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 2:28pm

Zunyi, China Heavy Cruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
10.223 t light; 10.694 t standard; 12.188 t normal; 13.383 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
576,65 ft / 557,74 ft x 57,41 ft x 24,44 ft (normal load)
175,76 m / 170,00 m x 17,50 m x 7,45 m

Armament:
9 - 7,99" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 255,24lbs / 115,77kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4,69" / 119 mm guns (4x2 guns), 51,42lbs / 23,32kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
4 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1932 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2.807 lbs / 1.273 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 140
8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 345,80 ft / 105,40 m 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 3,74" / 95 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
2nd: 4,13" / 105 mm 2,95" / 75 mm -
3rd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0,98" / 25 mm - -
5th: 0,47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2,17" / 55 mm, Conning tower: 5,51" / 140 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 92.898 shp / 69.302 Kw = 31,40 kts
Range 9.000nm at 16,10 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.688 tons

Complement:
579 - 753

Cost:
£4,711 million / $18,844 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 351 tons, 2,9%
Armour: 2.401 tons, 19,7%
- Belts: 762 tons, 6,3%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 685 tons, 5,6%
- Armour Deck: 891 tons, 7,3%
- Conning Tower: 63 tons, 0,5%
Machinery: 2.742 tons, 22,5%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.579 tons, 37,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.965 tons, 16,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13.452 lbs / 6.102 Kg = 52,7 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,04
Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 15,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,91
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,545
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5,91 ft / 1,80 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27,89 ft / 8,50 m
- Forecastle (18%): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Mid (50%): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 17,72 ft / 5,40 m (20,01 ft / 6,10 m before break)
- Stern: 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
- Average freeboard: 21,03 ft / 6,41 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127,2%
Waterplane Area: 22.244 Square feet or 2.067 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 565 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,94
- Longitudinal: 1,94
- Overall: 1,01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

48

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 2:38pm

And there you have a quite modern armored cruiser, similar to the RSAN's Cape Good Hope class ships. You'll want to extend the belt armor enough to cover the magazines, but you have some remaining hull strength to do that with.

49

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 2:50pm

Agreed, that's a good design.

Ubiwan

Unregistered

50

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 2:52pm

I will extend the belt armament.

I am glad that the draft became meanwhile completely good.
Is one perhaps interested in this draft ? ;-))))

51

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 2:53pm

A very nice ship, and certainly one that will give the members of Satsuma something to think about, especially if she gets a sister. Overall a very survivable design

Ubiwan

Unregistered

52

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 2:58pm

Don't panic. China is very interested becomming a member of the satsuma. In this connection a violent discussion prevails in the Chinese government.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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53

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 4:29pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Ubiwan
Don't panic. China is very interested becomming a member of the satsuma.


Oh no. Boring! Let China become a SATSUMA member and the fun is over. :o/

Ubiwan

Unregistered

54

Tuesday, July 18th 2006, 4:37pm

I don't think so, because there is still a large unresolved problem !!! I only say "Hainan Dao".