WesWorld

Now what would Yakino be doing off Dover hmmm?

I'm almost tempted to try my hand at drawing a Japanese warship....

A new Battleship Arcadia....

What? It could be Japanese.

So...umm...anyway, I was wondering if France was building one or two because I recall that two Suffren and two Duquesne class ships have already eaten 40,000 t of the 60,000 t French allocation. One Indochinie is peachy, but two will present a treaty issue...

Unless theirs some clause I'm unaware of that would allow transfer of tonnage, it would have to be a 1 of a kind.

13,000 tons is tough to disguise as 10,000 tons.

We are assuming the French want to keep with the treaty or they expect the build the second after the treaty ends at the beginning of 1937.

I get the impression that there will be only one Indochinie but I have to agree that for France, two would be better. Perhaps a slightly lighter version of the ship (about 1,000 tons or so)?

Quoted

A new Battleship Arcadia....

You mean to tell me that he wasn't interested in this Prof. Tomoe design??

Quoted

Now what would Yakino be doing off Dover hmmm?

Aaah... If I told you, I would have to kill you. :-)

Which is why I'm considering the following as stablemates. They have the same excellent speed, range, and seakeeping, so operations with together won't be a problem. Together they provide both a heavy punch and the "rain of pain".

I figure with this pair, along with the Richelieus and a CV, France can hold a large number of enemy positions at risk to make him disperse his forces, reducing the forces he can bring to bear against French possessions in the Pacific. And the speed and range of this task group will help them survive until the forces of French allies arrive to redress the balance.

Indochinie class, French Heavy Cruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
12,295 t light; 12,814 t standard; 15,117 t normal; 16,959 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
678.55 ft / 666.01 ft x 59.06 ft (Bulges 69.88 ft) x 22.97 ft (normal load)
206.82 m / 203.00 m x 18.00 m (Bulges 21.30 m) x 7.00 m

Armament:
8 - 7.87" / 200 mm guns (4x2 guns), 286.60lbs / 130.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (1x2 guns), 61.73lbs / 28.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 61.73lbs / 28.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,957 lbs / 1,341 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 125
12 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.12" / 130 mm 390.42 ft / 119.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 275.59 ft / 84.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Upper: 0.98" / 25 mm 65.62 ft / 20.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Armour deck: 2.17" / 55 mm, Conning tower: 5.12" / 130 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 115,131 shp / 85,888 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 15,100nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,145 tons

Complement:
681 - 886

Cost:
£5.325 million / $21.299 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 316 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 2,611 tons, 17.3 %
- Belts: 903 tons, 6.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 554 tons, 3.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,087 tons, 7.2 %
- Conning Tower: 67 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 3,398 tons, 22.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,895 tons, 39.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,822 tons, 18.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
18,316 lbs / 8,308 Kg = 75.0 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.495
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.53 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.58 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Forecastle (27 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Average freeboard: 22.31 ft / 6.80 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.6 %
Waterplane Area: 27,125 Square feet or 2,520 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 587 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.51
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Aviation - 2 Seaplanes, 1 Catapult


New Caledonia class, French Heavy Cruiser laid down 1933

Displacement:
9,129 t light; 9,509 t standard; 11,433 t normal; 12,972 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
620.08 ft / 620.08 ft x 56.76 ft (Bulges 63.32 ft) x 23.16 ft (normal load)
189.00 m / 189.00 m x 17.30 m (Bulges 19.30 m) x 7.06 m

Armament:
12 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (4x3 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1933 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (1x2 guns), 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1933 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,707 lbs / 774 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 381.23 ft / 116.20 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 238.85 ft / 72.80 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Upper: 0.79" / 20 mm 65.62 ft / 20.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.33" / 110 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 3.54" / 90 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.33" / 110 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 96,419 shp / 71,929 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 15,100nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,464 tons

Complement:
552 - 718

Cost:
£4.175 million / $16.700 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 203 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 1,543 tons, 13.5 %
- Belts: 703 tons, 6.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 371 tons, 3.2 %
- Armour Deck: 421 tons, 3.7 %
- Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,809 tons, 24.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,524 tons, 39.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,304 tons, 20.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,853 lbs / 6,284 Kg = 129.3 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 16.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.440
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.79 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.68 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.78 ft / 10.60 m
- Forecastle (21 %): 24.93 ft / 7.60 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.93 ft / 7.60 m (15.09 ft / 4.60 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.95 ft / 6.39 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.5 %
Waterplane Area: 23,129 Square feet or 2,149 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 529 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.64
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Aviation - 1 Seaplane, 1 Catapult

I like the second design most, excellent firepower and speed. Their deck armor makes me squeamish though.

Indochinie class, French Heavy Cruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
12,046 t light; 12,560 t standard; 14,831 t normal; 16,649 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
669.63 ft / 656.50 ft x 59.06 ft (Bulges 69.06 ft) x 23.13 ft (normal load)
204.10 m / 200.10 m x 18.00 m (Bulges 21.05 m) x 7.05 m

Armament:
8 - 7.87" / 200 mm guns (4x2 guns), 286.60lbs / 130.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (1x2 guns), 61.73lbs / 28.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 61.73lbs / 28.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,957 lbs / 1,341 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 125
12 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.12" / 130 mm 389.80 ft / 118.81 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 266.70 ft / 81.29 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Upper: 0.98" / 25 mm 65.62 ft / 20.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5.12" / 130 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 114,334 shp / 85,293 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 15,100nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,089 tons

Complement:
671 - 873

Cost:
£5.270 million / $21.081 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 316 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 2,493 tons, 16.8 %
- Belts: 899 tons, 6.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 554 tons, 3.7 %
- Armour Deck: 974 tons, 6.6 %
- Conning Tower: 67 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 3,375 tons, 22.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,788 tons, 39.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,785 tons, 18.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,692 lbs / 8,025 Kg = 72.5 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.495
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.51 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.37 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Forecastle (26 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Average freeboard: 22.43 ft / 6.84 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.0 %
Waterplane Area: 26,738 Square feet or 2,484 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 583 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.58
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Aviation - 2 Seaplanes, 1 Catapult



New Caledonia class, French Heavy Cruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
9,524 t light; 9,913 t standard; 11,913 t normal; 13,512 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
650.01 ft / 637.47 ft x 56.76 ft (Bulges 63.98 ft) x 23.13 ft (normal load)
198.12 m / 194.30 m x 17.30 m (Bulges 19.50 m) x 7.05 m

Armament:
12 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (4x3 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (1x2 guns), 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,707 lbs / 774 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 385.17 ft / 117.40 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 252.30 ft / 76.90 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Upper: 0.79" / 20 mm 65.62 ft / 20.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 98,040 shp / 73,138 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 15,100nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,598 tons

Complement:
569 - 741

Cost:
£4.131 million / $16.524 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 203 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 1,775 tons, 14.9 %
- Belts: 698 tons, 5.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 339 tons, 2.8 %
- Armour Deck: 694 tons, 5.8 %
- Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,894 tons, 24.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,613 tons, 38.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,389 tons, 20.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,615 lbs / 6,629 Kg = 136.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.442
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.96 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m (14.76 ft / 4.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.62 ft / 6.29 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.8 %
Waterplane Area: 23,816 Square feet or 2,213 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 528 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.49
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Aviation - 1 Seaplane, 1 Catapult

The 152mm version has quad mounts on a beam (inside bulges) about 10% less than that of historic CLs with triples, and a bc of 0.442. I'm wondering if that combo is reasonable?

Well I doubt that the quad 40mm will cause too much of a problem. BC is a bit low though...

I should never post before getting my morning coffee. I do much better at 2am than 7am. Misread that as quad 152mm....argh

Mmmmmmmmmmm coooooffeeeeeeee........

The 5.9" cruiser is much better now with the 40mm deck armor.

Darth HoOmAn ?!?!?!?!?!


"I am your father...."

*cough cough*

"Am I your father...?!"

It's a compliment! Honest!
And there are more Darths than Vader alone.