WesWorld

I've decided to rebuild my Los Andes Class gunboats.
New engines and boilers, more bunkerage (wood and coal), new 130mm casemate mounts aft, new turret armed with two 155mm French Grande Puissance Filloux guns with 30 degree elevation, new belt, new CT and deck armour over the engine spaces. AA weapons have been fitted and the misc weight sims four 81mm mortars (dismountable for land use) and ammo. Any thoughts?

Los Andes, La Plata, Argentina Gunboat laid down 1873 (Engine 1932)
Central citadel ship

Displacement:
1,321 t light; 1,389 t standard; 1,500 t normal; 1,589 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
186.00 ft / 186.00 ft x 44.00 ft x 10.60 ft (normal load)
56.69 m / 56.69 m x 13.41 m x 3.23 m

Armament:
2 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (1x2 guns), 97.00lbs / 44.00kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline amidships
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, all aft
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 599 lbs / 271 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.07" / 205 mm 72.18 ft / 22.00 m 6.89 ft / 2.10 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 60 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 0.59" / 15 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,000 ihp / 746 Kw = 12.09 kts
Range 3,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 200 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
119 - 156

Cost:
£0.122 million / $0.487 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 80 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 509 tons, 33.9 %
- Belts: 223 tons, 14.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 204 tons, 13.6 %
- Armour Deck: 66 tons, 4.4 %
- Conning Tower: 17 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 62 tons, 4.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 620 tons, 41.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 179 tons, 11.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,810 lbs / 821 Kg = 21.4 x 6.1 " / 155 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.43
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.605
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Forecastle (5 %): 11.48 ft / 3.50 m (4.92 ft / 1.50 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
- Quarterdeck (5 %): 11.48 ft / 3.50 m (4.92 ft / 1.50 m before break)
- Stern: 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 5.58 ft / 1.70 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 57.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 47.4 %
Waterplane Area: 6,015 Square feet or 559 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 414 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.72
- Overall: 1.02
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor

I'd scrap these ships and build a new modern class that can do a better job.

Not everybody command an empire


I say its good enought.
I will keap this ship in service till some one is willing to say a newership with similar abilitys at scrap value price.

I have to second Earl - they´re not worth it. Their should be entirely worn out and it is a much better idea to build new sloops or other small warships.

If you need a third opinion I'd say they are definately too old to be worthy of such a refit.

You could build some valuable ships with the materials needed to improve this design.

Since some felt that a new design would be better here is one. No belt armour but more guns. These ships are armed with standard Army weapons to ease supply problems in the combat zone. These ships can operate both inshore and over the ocean. Those 155mm guns may give any prowling destroyers a shock too. The 155mm are the French guns again but in a twin deck mount with 40 degree elevation and electric traverse and elevation. The three diesels provide full power, when cruising the central diesel is coupled to the twin shafts and can power the ship to 11.8kts. The range reflects this cruise speed. The AA guns are Army mounts and two/four 81mm mortars can be used on board or ashore. The 75mm are mounted en-echolon and the third mount on the centreline (this may be replaced by an AA mount that is still in development). These are Argentine built French 75mm with a L/50 barrel and new ammo. We are offering this design for export too with any guns the client wants.

Los Andes, Argentina Gunboat laid down 1932

Displacement:
554 t light; 605 t standard; 659 t normal; 702 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
219.01 ft / 216.00 ft x 28.60 ft x 8.60 ft (normal load)
66.75 m / 65.84 m x 8.72 m x 2.62 m

Armament:
4 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (2x2 guns), 97.00lbs / 44.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
3 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 13.66lbs / 6.20kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
2 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward
6 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 433 lbs / 196 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 2.76" / 70 mm -
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,500 shp / 1,119 Kw = 16.04 kts
Range 3,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 97 tons

Complement:
64 - 84

Cost:
£0.352 million / $1.409 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 62 tons, 9.4 %
Armour: 74 tons, 11.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 64 tons, 9.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 10 tons, 1.5 %
Machinery: 42 tons, 6.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 336 tons, 51.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 105 tons, 15.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 6.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,102 lbs / 500 Kg = 9.7 x 6.1 " / 155 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 10.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.434
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 25
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Mid (35 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m (8.86 ft / 2.70 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Stern: 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Average freeboard: 11.73 ft / 3.58 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.9 %
Waterplane Area: 3,891 Square feet or 361 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 47 lbs/sq ft or 230 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.84
- Longitudinal: 4.89
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

I've revised this design to reduce weight. Thought I'd post it here incase anyone has any ideas/comments.

Los Andes, Argentina Gunboat laid down 1932

Displacement:
493 t light; 542 t standard; 592 t normal; 633 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
209.16 ft / 206.04 ft x 27.89 ft x 8.69 ft (normal load)
63.75 m / 62.80 m x 8.50 m x 2.65 m

Armament:
4 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (2x2 guns), 97.00lbs / 44.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
3 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 13.66lbs / 6.20kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
2 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward
6 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 433 lbs / 196 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.18" / 30 mm -
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,500 shp / 1,119 Kw = 16.28 kts
Range 3,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 91 tons

Complement:
59 - 78

Cost:
£0.341 million / $1.364 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 62 tons, 10.5 %
Armour: 43 tons, 7.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 35 tons, 5.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 1.5 %
Machinery: 40 tons, 6.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 307 tons, 51.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 100 tons, 16.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 6.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
812 lbs / 368 Kg = 7.1 x 6.1 " / 155 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 10.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.415
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.39 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 25
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Mid (35 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m (8.20 ft / 2.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Stern: 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Average freeboard: 11.34 ft / 3.46 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.0 %
Waterplane Area: 3,570 Square feet or 332 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 47 lbs/sq ft or 228 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 5.21
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather